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How exactly has Islam been twisted?

stevecanuck

stevecanuck

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I often hear that Islamic scripture, which in reality teaches peaceful coexistence, has been twisted into a call for war.

What I never hear is an explanation of how that works. I've spent the better part of two decades reading the Qur'an and history books, and I have yet to find the peaceful coexistence bit. So, please. Someone tell me, using specific passages and in detail, how such a gross misinterpretation has occurred.
 
stevecanuck said:
I often hear that Islamic scripture, which in reality teaches peaceful coexistence, has been twisted into a call for war.

What I never hear is an explanation of how that works. I've spent the better part of two decades reading the Qur'an and history books, and I have yet to find the peaceful coexistence bit. So, please. Someone tell me, using specific passages and in detail, how such a gross misinterpretation has occurred.
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Don't the vast majority of Muslims live in peaceful co-existence with the rest of the world?

Whether or not that's something ideological, or cultural I don't know, but isn't it the case?
 
Dragonfly said:
Don't the vast majority of Muslims live in peaceful co-existence with the rest of the world?

Whether or not that's something ideological, or cultural I don't know, but isn't it the case?
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That's not the question, but I'll address it anyway with an example. The Muslims of Pakistan are not actively at war (in terms of military operations) with it's Christian population, but they DID vote for presidential candidates who support their blasphemy laws that call for sentences including the death penalty for those who insult Islam. Is that living in peace?
 
stevecanuck said:
That's not the question, but I'll address it anyway with an example. The Muslims of Pakistan are not actively at war (in terms of military operations) with it's Christian population, but they DID vote for presidential candidates who support their blasphemy laws that call for sentences including the death penalty for those who insult Islam. Is that living in peace?
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Pakistan represents what percentage of Muslims worldwide?


Do all Muslim nations have Blasphemy laws?


Or again, is it more of a cultural thing?


Isn't there some Bible stuff about stoning people to death for Blasphemy?
 
Dragonfly said:
Pakistan represents what percentage of Muslims worldwide?


Do all Muslim nations have Blasphemy laws?


Or again, is it more of a cultural thing?


Isn't there some Bible stuff about stoning people to death for Blasphemy?
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Indeed, and not so long ago, people were routinely put to death for it, and less.
 
Dragonfly said:
Pakistan represents what percentage of Muslims worldwide?


Do all Muslim nations have Blasphemy laws?


Or again, is it more of a cultural thing?


Isn't there some Bible stuff about stoning people to death for Blasphemy?
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Sorry, but I indulged one non-sequitur already. I realize nobody is going to answer my question, but that's the whole point. This is going to be a short thread because there is no answer. Islam has NOT been twisted.
 
stevecanuck said:
Sorry, but I indulged one non-sequitur already. I realize nobody is going to answer my question, but that's the whole point. This is going to be a short thread because there is no answer. Islam has NOT been twisted.
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It sucks when not everyone will swallow your Koolaid doesn't it?

By the way:

Leviticus 24:10-23 King James Version (KJV)

10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;

11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan)

12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the Lord might be shewed them.

13 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.

16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Click to expand...
 
stevecanuck said:
That's not the question, but I'll address it anyway with an example. The Muslims of Pakistan are not actively at war (in terms of military operations) with it's Christian population, but they DID vote for presidential candidates who support their blasphemy laws that call for sentences including the death penalty for those who insult Islam. Is that living in peace?
Click to expand...

Here we go...

Step 1: Ask question.

Step 2: Receive answer.

Step 3: Ignore answer, move the goalposts, because this thread ain't gonna be about nothing but hatin' Mooslims.

Gilligan's Island reruns are more entertaining.
 
OlNate said:
Here we go...

Step 1: Ask question.

Step 2: Receive answer.

Step 3: Ignore answer, move the goalposts, because this thread ain't gonna be about nothing but hatin' Mooslims.

Gilligan's Island reruns are more entertaining.
Click to expand...

OMG, you're not actually going to try to float the old you've-already-been-answered gambit are you? I didn't know we'd get into amateur hour this quickly.
 
stevecanuck said:
I often hear that Islamic scripture, which in reality teaches peaceful coexistence, has been twisted into a call for war.

What I never hear is an explanation of how that works. I've spent the better part of two decades reading the Qur'an and history books, and I have yet to find the peaceful coexistence bit. So, please. Someone tell me, using specific passages and in detail, how such a gross misinterpretation has occurred.
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War against who exactly?
 
Elvira said:
War against who exactly?
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Unbelievers, as unequivocally stated in verse 9:29: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands.

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Arberry: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.
 
stevecanuck said:
Unbelievers, as unequivocally stated in verse 9:29: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands.

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Arberry: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.
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Could it be taken as a spiritual fight against the evil forces behind it, instead of physical kind, much like the Christian faith?
 
stevecanuck said:
OMG, you're not actually going to try to float the old you've-already-been-answered gambit are you? I didn't know we'd get into amateur hour this quickly.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, I forgot step four: Everyone but you is stupid.

There...now we've got it all.

/thread

:lamo
 
stevecanuck said:
Off topic. Can you tell me how Islam has been twisted or misinterpreted?
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It's been twisted in just the same way Christianity has: By people ignoring their own inherent morals and taking every word of a disgusting ancient book literally.
 
stevecanuck said:
Unbelievers, as unequivocally stated in verse 9:29: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands.

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Arberry: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.
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The most remarkable thing about this litany of translations is how different they are in many respects, but that they nevertheless all use the word "fight," and not "kill," "attack," or "wage war against."
 
Tlrmln said:
The most remarkable thing about this litany of translations is how different they are in many respects, but that they nevertheless all use the word "fight," and not "kill," "attack," or "wage war against."
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Which can most certainly mean a spiritual fight that goes on within one's self...
 
Elvira said:
Could it be taken as a spiritual fight against the evil forces behind it, instead of physical kind, much like the Christian faith?
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That's a fair question, but the answer is no. The word (qatilu) translated as 'fight' is the 2nd person masculine plural imperative conjugation of the verb 'qatl' ( قتل )

Go to corpus.quran.com verse 9:29 and have a look at the Arabic word for word translation, and you should be able to recognize the pattern if you read it from right to left.

Now, paste قتل into any online Arabic to English dictionary and you'll see it means kill. There are many verses that speak of death, and they invariably use 'qatl'. There is zero doubt about this.
 
stevecanuck said:
Or, you could actually answer the question.
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If it's the religion, why are billions of Muslims living in peaceful co-existence with everyone else?

Why do all of the Mulims I know, have known, live near, or work with never try to kill me?

Why do some Muslims serve in our military?
 
Originally Posted by stevecanuck
I often hear that Islamic scripture, which in reality teaches peaceful coexistence, has been twisted into a call for war.

What I never hear is an explanation of how that works. I've spent the better part of two decades reading the Qur'an and history books, and I have yet to find the peaceful coexistence bit. So, please. Someone tell me, using specific passages and in detail, how such a gross misinterpretation has occurred.
Click to expand...

It's a "peaceful co-existence" as long as infidels (non-Muslims), pay the price for being infidels. The price could be being taxed under the Sharia law.






Furthermore, the "peaceful co-existence" part, goes only to Muslims. It is hard for infidels to feel peaceful when they live with so much uncertainty.
 
Tlrmln said:
It's been twisted in just the same way Christianity has: By people ignoring their own inherent morals and taking every word of a disgusting ancient book literally.
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Taking words literally is literally the opposite of twisting them.
 
Tlrmln said:
The most remarkable thing about this litany of translations is how different they are in many respects, but that they nevertheless all use the word "fight," and not "kill," "attack," or "wage war against."
Click to expand...

See my response to Elvira on that very question.
 
stevecanuck said:
That's a fair question, but the answer is no. The word (qatilu) translated as 'fight' is the 2nd person masculine plural imperative conjugation of the verb 'qatl' ( قتل )

Go to corpus.quran.com verse 9:29 and have a look at the Arabic word for word translation, and you should be able to recognize the pattern if you read it from right to left.

Now, paste قتل into any online Arabic to English dictionary and you'll see it means kill. There are many verses that speak of death, and they invariably use 'qatl'. There is zero doubt about this.
Click to expand...

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world so why don't we see the majority of them following what the Koran says then?
 
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