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Thread: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

  1. #21
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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    When's the last time Muslims bombed an Episcopalian church? I've never heard of it happening. If sectarian violence happens in the Muslim world despite a shared religion, what makes you think shared Christianity would help?
    Because it has.

    While Muslims only account for 1% of the official population of the USA, they commit interreligious violence in countries where they are becoming a large share of the population, such as in the Philippines.

    Philippines church bombings: 20 killed and dozens wounded - CNN

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Man, those first two Skynyrd albums were ... so _ damn _ good!

    This wasn't only a Southern thing, either. Kids up North loved them, too. Young guitarists far up North were learning Duane Allman & Dickie Betts licks, note for note! I worshiped Duane Allman. And I played a lot of his material. I literally wore-out copies of "Eat A Peach" and "Live At The Fillmore" learning those licks!


    But ... let's not forget this classic from - '69!
    Just a few more that came to mind:





    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #23
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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    ...but how do you prove God is false?
    We can't prove that their is not god - and I use a legal definition of proof here
    God is not guilty of existing

    We can only prove that some gods and goddesses are false because of what they say is demonstrably false - such as the Abrahamic god(s) of the Bible

    We can demonstrate that the Bible is false and therefore can make the assertion that the god(s) mentioned within in and draw their authority from it, are made made, therefore made up, therefore false.

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    There are so many different denominations of Christianity in the United States, and many of them have a history of hating each other. So I don't see that shared Christianity really unites people that effectively. It certainly doesn't unite Mormons with Episcopalians for example.
    Our capacity to process information is limited implying there exists an upper bound on the number of things we can simultaneously juggle mentally. This simple fact has interesting consequences, not the least of which is the commonality of internal inconsistencies in our beliefs, actions, goals, etc. A more relevant aspect of this issue might be how we can sometimes focus on minute details at the expense of a larger picture. People can easily come to abhor each other over relatively inconsequential disagreements when those disagreements are put in the larger context of what they share.

    Christians and Jews share even less at the theological level than most pairs of denominations among all those who call themselves Christians. On the other hand, all those groups share substantial amounts of values. Biblical scripture sowed the seeds of ideas we hold especially dearly in this 21st century, namely the equality of all human beings. The first of the two creation stories in Genesis proclaims that all human beings have been created in the image of God. The second one also states the equality of men and women, though not all English translations render the Hebrew properly according to Prager because the original text explicitly states that the woman is the equal of the man. Of course, this is just one example of profound values large swaths of people share because of their shared belief in some parts of biblical scripture. It's not exactly surprising that the Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." It's not surprising either that a biblical verse would be the only statement put on the Liberty Bell.

    The common background is what made the United States and much of the western world possible. It's this idea that you're worth something, that it matters how you choose to behave yourself and that you should be judged based on those choices. Without those very old ideas, much of our sense of justice would be different. The idea that you have rights wouldn't exist. The idea that you are innocent until proven guilty would not exist. It is also very probable that slavery would still exist: Christianity has long despised slavery and it was Christians, in the name of a Christian doctrine that rose against the institution and finally overthrew it. Though the Bible did not forbid all slavery, it condemns theft and capturing people has long been understood as a form of theft by Christians and Jews who commented on the ten commandments. What was considered acceptable is indentured slavery where you accept to work off a debt by enslaving yourself for a predetermined number of years. However, going to Africa to get shiploads of people who got captured against their will... That was understood as a violation of the commandment not to steal long before the King of England introduced the commerce of slaves in the American colonies.

    What Jews and Christians share are the ideas which sowed the seeds of many things we find valuable today. It's just that people often lose the forest in the trees.

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Just a few more that came to mind:





    Not sure I see the Christian references here, but I do see the life-death-birth theme ...
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Man, those first two Skynyrd albums were ... so _ damn _ good!

    This wasn't only a Southern thing, either. Kids up North loved them, too. Young guitarists far up North were learning Duane Allman & Dickie Betts licks, note for note! I worshiped Duane Allman. And I played a lot of his material. I literally wore-out copies of "Eat A Peach" and "Live At The Fillmore" learning those licks!


    But ... let's not forget this classic from - '69!


    One more came to mind:

    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #27
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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    One more came to mind:

    Yep. That was a big one! Chicago was kinda' a political epicenter of sorts come the 68' convention and just following. CSNY did "Chicago/We can Change the World" around the same time, with LaGrange released a bit later.
    Last edited by Chomsky; 10-21-19 at 03:42 PM. Reason: add csny ref
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Sad.

    Obviously we don't need nor want religious extremism. But a little spirituality & introspection is good for one's soul.
    This would actually be properly classified as bigotry towards Atheists. The idea that spirituality is necessary for a person to have a good soul.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    So...you draw an equivalence between being religious, and flat earth theory. I understand that flat earth theory is provably false...but how do you prove God is false?
    The principle of non-contradiction in coordination with the attributes generally assigned to any god. Occam's Razor is a big help. I realize that in the minds of the religious no amount of evidence will ever cross the goal line for burden of proof, but it really does. The levels of logical gymnastics one must go through to continue convincing themselves that a god exist makes it fairly obvious.

    To put it in perspective. No Liberal can definitively say with 100% certainty that Trump intentionally coordinated with Russia or offered a Quid Pro Quo to Ukraine, but the levels of Obstruction of Justice we've seen from this administration as well as the knowledge of Trump's lies and other abuses of power make it realistically undeniable that he's guilty of impeachable offenses. The endless and ridiculous stories and blatant lies that we know aren't true makes it increasingly obvious that Trump is guilty to the point where if you're still believing any of his lines you're a damn fool.

    The same can be said for belief in a God. In order to come up with a god that could feasibly exist you have to strip said god of any quality that meaningfully defines a god. It's essentially becomes obvious sophistry on the order of "Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Claus" where god isn't really an actual god he's just some general idea or thought.

    At that point any reasonable human being can go ahead and call it proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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    Re: In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    This would actually be properly classified as bigotry towards Atheists. The idea that spirituality is necessary for a person to have a good soul.
    The bolded is an erroneous reading of my statement.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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