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Isaiah 53 Who is the Suffering Servant

Originally Posted by Omega Man
Uh.... I know. That's what I was already saying. You know, how accounts of a revered wild man preaching in the desert and subsiding upon an ascetic diet was *already in the scriptures*? (and more importantly how those stories are borrowed by later messianic folks?)
OM
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Bringing up the "conspiracy" theory again? :mrgreen:

You used such small fonts for a reason? Because, you ignored my rebuttal to you?
Here, let's resurrect the logical questions posed to you! (Like as ignoring them would make them forgotten as logical rebuttals to your silly argument)!


Stop for a minute and think.
You're saying everyone involved with the New Testament - from Mary to Jesus and all the disciples/apostles and all the Christians
of the time were all part of one big conspiracy to "SELF-FULFILL" THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH?

Who would want to volunteer to play the part of the Messiah, who was known to suffer? And, for what?

Why did the apostles go along with what they knew to be a hoax, and willingly died for it?

If it was a hoax, why did Christianity explode in the region after Jesus died? And, why did the apostles and many other followers martyred themselves over it?



...and to add to that...….

……...why would Paul - who wasn't even a disciple when Jesus was alive - formerly known as Saul, suddenly abandon his high position to
become a follower of Christ?
 
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tosca1 said:
You're squirming? :lol: You were using the comparison to Elijah, as your argument!
Citing similarities!

You'te sying John fancied himself like Elijah! :lol:


You didn't read well enough, huh?
You think the Scriptures would repeat something if there is no significance in it?




Biblical Horizons >> No. 24: Locusts and Honey


See? What'd I tell you?
I'M THE ONE, who's removing blinders! YOUR BLINDERS!

So, there.
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I haven't squirmed in the least. What the heck are you even going on about? Fact is you attempted to undermine my position with my own position.


OM
 
tosca1 said:
Explain it then!
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Seems you either aren't paying attention, or your receiver is stuck in transmit mode. Probably explains all those seizure-inducing fancy bright colors and extreme font changes.


OM
 
tosca1 said:
Bringing up the "conspiracy" theory again? :mrgreen:

You used such small fonts for a reason? Because, you ignored my rebuttal to you?
Here, let's resurrect the logical questions posed to you! (Like as ignoring them would make them forgotten as logical rebuttals to your silly argument)!


Stop for a minute and think.
You're saying everyone involved with the New Testament - from Mary to Jesus and all the disciples/apostles and all the Christians
of the time were all part of one big conspiracy to "SELF-FULFILL" THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH?

Who would want to volunteer to play the part of the Messiah, who was known to suffer? And, for what?

Why did the apostles go along with what they knew to be a hoax, and willingly died for it?

If it was a hoax, why did Christianity explode in the region after Jesus died? And, why did the apostles and many other followers martyred themselves over it?



...and to add to that...….

……...why would Paul - who wasn't even a disciple when Jesus was alive - formerly known as Saul, suddenly abandon his high position to
become a follower of Christ?
Click to expand...

Fancy colors and red herrings. Just say what you have to say, and stay on topic.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
Seems you either aren't paying attention, or your receiver is stuck in transmit mode. Probably explains all those seizure-inducing fancy bright colors and extreme font changes.


OM
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You'll never make any sense of this...best way to deal with it is ignore it...;)
 
Omega Man said:
Fancy colors and red herrings. Just say what you have to say, and stay on topic.


OM
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Translation: you can't offer any logical rebut.

Hah!
 
Elvira said:
You'll never make any sense of this...best way to deal with it is ignore it...;)
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Hehehe....understandable that kids cannot make any sense of this. I can see how JW disciples too, are struggling with it. ;)

Oh, well..... :shrug:
 
tosca1 said:
Hehehe....understandable that kids cannot make any sense of this. I can see how JW disciples too, are struggling with it. ;)

Oh, well..... :shrug:
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Wrong...I don't struggle with you juvenile posts of colors and enlarged fonts...I ignore them...
 
tosca1 said:
Translation: you can't offer any logical rebut.

Hah!
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That I have already accomplished; no need to repeat myself. Horrible translation.

Self, meet mirror.


OM
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...I don't struggle with you juvenile posts of colors and enlarged fonts...I ignore them...
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That's right! So, I notice. You ignore them. :lol:

WHY?


Because.....

………...it's usually the highlighted (colored), and enlarged fonts that stress the LOGICAL point


of my argument!



They're the very ones you struggle with! :lamo


That must mean too...……. you can't find the answers in your Watch Tower!



Btw, I hope you realize - you're supporting Omega Man -

in his attempt to debunk the New Testament! :roll:



Oh boy, JWs disciples are pathetically a confused lot, that I can see.
You guys better make up your mind if you're for Christ, or actually against Him!
 
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Omega Man said:
That I have already accomplished; no need to repeat myself. Horrible translation.

Self, meet mirror.


OM
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Nah.
You and Elvira engage in that old deceitful tactic - you both say you've already replied to it when in fact you have not! It's called, lying.
Elvira had done that same dishonest tactic in another thread some time ago.

I know you can't answer the logical questions that proved your opinion senseless.
 
Omega Man said:
That I have already accomplished; no need to repeat myself. Horrible translation.
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No such thing!

You claim of a conspiracy among all participants in the New Testament - to "self-fulfill" the Old Testament of the Messiah.
Here are the questions again...…………. that show you're talking nonsense!


Who would want to volunteer to play the part of the Messiah, who was known to suffer? And, for what?

Why did the apostles go along with what they knew to be a hoax, and willingly died for it?

If it was a hoax, why did Christianity explode in the region after Jesus died? That would've been the end of Christ (and his organization), right?
And, why did the apostles and many other followers martyred themselves over it after His death?

Why would Paul - who wasn't even a disciple when Jesus was alive - formerly known as Saul, suddenly abandon his high position to become a follower of Christ?







Self, meet mirror.

OM
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:lol:


You're now talking to yourself?
 
Elvira said:
You'll never make any sense of this...best way to deal with it is ignore it...;)
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Just so to show how truly confused you are, Elvira:

You offer support to OM's argument that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is not Jesus Christ. In other words, you agree with him.

And yet, even Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the Suffering Servant in Isaiah:


5 The question on all of this was thus raised in the first century C.E., because the controversy raged about Jesus Christ the Descendant of Abraham and of David. That is why the apostle Paul wrote about the matter and showed that the information heard by Isaiah had come true in Jesus Christ as the “Servant” mentioned in
Isaiah 52:13 and Isa 53:11.
The glorification of Jesus Christ in heaven after his extraordinary sufferings as a man on earth was good news, Gospel, Evangel.
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The Transforming of the Messianic “Servant” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY





You also support OM's argument that Jesus being hailed as the Messiah is nothing more but a "conspiracy" among all involved in it!
In other words, he's saying, the New testament is just bull - and you applaud and support him! :shrug:


Having yolked yourself on countless occasions with non-believers in this forum - have you finally, fully crossed over to their side?
Have you totally lost your way?

Are you now a non-believer too?



Just asking...…
 
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tosca1 said:
Nah.
You and Elvira engage in that old deceitful tactic - you both say you've already replied to it when in fact you have not! It's called, lying.
Elvira had done that same dishonest tactic in another thread some time ago.

I know you can't answer the logical questions that proved your opinion senseless.
Click to expand...

The tactic you have resorted to is known as projection.


OM
 
tosca1 said:
...that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is not Jesus Christ.
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Because it wasn't, it isn't, and it never was. To continually claim as such is a betrayal of the original texts, which messianic authors and storytellers were renowned for.


OM
 
tosca1 said:
Just so to show how truly confused you are, Elvira:

You offer support to OM's argument that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is not Jesus Christ. In other words, you agree with him.

And yet, even Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the Suffering Servant in Isaiah:



The Transforming of the Messianic “Servant” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY





You also support OM's argument that Jesus being hailed as the Messiah is nothing more but a "conspiracy" among all involved in it!
In other words, he's saying, the New testament is just bull - and you applaud and support him! :shrug:


Having yolked yourself on countless occasions with non-believers in this forum - have you finally, fully crossed over to their side?
Have you totally lost your way?

Are you now a non-believer too?



Just asking...…
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Just so you know, that is a lie...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...aiah-53-suffering-servant.html#post1070756322
 
Elvira said:
Just so you know, that is a lie...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...aiah-53-suffering-servant.html#post1070756322
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It's not a lie. You just simply don't see.

You're playing both sides, Elvira. You're saying that.....but your actions speak louder than your words.

Here it is:

Giving encouragement to OM means you're providing support to OM, regardless of his argument and his attempt
to debunk the New Testament.

That doesn't mean anything to you?



In other words, you're placing OM ahead of Jesus Christ.

You value the friendship or camaraderie you have with OM more than what relationship you have
with Jesus Christ.



Think about it:
OM is selling and promoting the idea that the New Testament is a bunch of made-up stories, and it's just a "conspiracy" among all participants!

Not only do you find nothing wrong with that, but you've actively taken his side against those who rebut his fantasy tales.





If we review your past posts - there is a pattern to your tendency to take a non-believer's side (not just OM's).




Like I've said:
you've yoked yourself with non-believers so many times that it looks to me you've been well on your way to following them -

not unlike how Old Testament Jews were led astray every time they associated with non-believers.



Thus I asked:

have you finally, FULLY, crossed over?
 
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Elvira said:
Just so you know, that is a lie...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...aiah-53-suffering-servant.html#post1070756322
Click to expand...

What is a lie?

This?

5 The question on all of this was thus raised in the first century C.E., because the controversy raged about Jesus Christ the Descendant of Abraham and of David.

That is why the apostle Paul wrote about the matter and showed that the information heard by Isaiah had come true in Jesus Christ as the “Servant” mentioned in Isaiah 52:13 and Isa 53:11.

The glorification of Jesus Christ in heaven after his extraordinary sufferings as a man on earth was good news, Gospel, Evangel. “Nevertheless,” writes the apostle Paul with special reference to his own people, “they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: ‘Jehovah, who put faith in the thing heard [from] us?’ So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ.”​—Romans 10:16, 17.
Click to expand...
The Transforming of the Messianic “Servant” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY


We're talking about who the suffering servant of Isaiah is, right?

Isn't that enough? Paul had set the record straight! You saying what he said is a lie?
 
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