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America is NOT a christian nation

Agreed.

But we are a nation with Christians.

Huge difference.


…..with majority of Americans identifying as Christians. 70.6%
That's the latest figure I can find.

Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center


Thus, to say that the USA is not a Christian nation, is open to interpretation.

We can say that it's not officially declared as a Christian nation out of consideration to
non-Christian population, but we can see all the way back to the founding fathers that the foundation of this nation is grounded on Christian values.



Only 23% for (atheists, agnostics and "nones").

The “nones,” a category that includes people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular,” now make up 23% of U.S. adults, up from 16% in 2007. But there is more to the story.
To begin with, this group is not uniformly nonreligious.
Most of them say they believe in God, and about a third say religion is at least somewhat important in their lives.


Religious 'nones' becoming more secular | Pew Research Center
 
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…..with majority of Americans identifying as Christians. 70.6%
That's the latest figure I can find.

Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center


Thus, to say that the USA is not a Christian nation, is open to interpretation.

We can say that it's not officially declared as a Christian nation out of consideration to
non-Christian population, but we can see all the way back to the founding fathers that the foundation of this nation is grounded on Christian values.



Only 23% for (atheists, agnostics and "nones").

The “nones,” a category that includes people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular,” now make up 23% of U.S. adults, up from 16% in 2007. But there is more to the story.
To begin with, this group is not uniformly nonreligious.
Most of them say they believe in God, and about a third say religion is at least somewhat important in their lives.


Religious 'nones' becoming more secular | Pew Research Center



America is a secular nation, not a religious nation. Therefor, it is not a Christian nation. You can't hijack the term "Christian Nation" just because a majority of US citizens are Christian. Turkey is also a secular nation, not a religious nation. The populace is about 90% Muslim. However, they are not a "Muslim Nation" and are so considered internationally or by the UN. They do have religious classes in school, but it was a secular government, not religious leaders or government, that decided so, so you can't rationalize that they are a "Muslim" nation. You can say America was founded on Christian values, just as I can in turn argue that Jewish values, or other religious and belief systems, are practically the same. You can rationalize all you want. You simply have your terminology wrong.
 
…..with majority of Americans identifying as Christians. 70.6%
That's the latest figure I can find.

Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center


Thus, to say that the USA is not a Christian nation, is open to interpretation.

We can say that it's not officially declared as a Christian nation out of consideration to
non-Christian population, but we can see all the way back to the founding fathers that the foundation of this nation is grounded on Christian values.



Only 23% for (atheists, agnostics and "nones").

The “nones,” a category that includes people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular,” now make up 23% of U.S. adults, up from 16% in 2007. But there is more to the story.
To begin with, this group is not uniformly nonreligious.
Most of them say they believe in God, and about a third say religion is at least somewhat important in their lives.


Religious 'nones' becoming more secular | Pew Research Center

You are just playing semantics. Christian's have no greater rights than anyone else. We do not favor any religion in America
 
Of course, what is missed here is the influence of the Magna Carta in the US Constitution.

The US Constitution is based on the Magna Carta.
The Magna Carta is based on Christian principles.



Magna Carta: The Christian Connection


What is not so well known is the overwhelming influence of the Christian church on this vitally important document. Australian law professor Augusto Zimmermann explains the Christian roots:
Common law means a legal system based upon the English legal system; a mixture of customary law, judge-made law and parliamentary law. At least until the early 19th century, the common law was heavily influenced by Christian philosophy. This philosophy argues that there is a divine reason for the existence of fundamental laws, and that such laws are superior to human-made legislation, thus reflecting universal and unchangeable principles by which everyone should live. This assumption was expressed, among other things, in the Magna Carta of 1215, a charter which guaranteed the basic rights and privileges to the English barons against the king. Professor Aroney explains Christianity’s ideological influence upon the Magna Carta:
From [the time of Alfred] the kings of England have traditionally recognised their submission to God. At their coronations they take an oath before the Archbishop acknowledging the Law of God as the standard of justice, and the rights of the church. They are also urged to do justice under God and to govern God’s people fairly. Magna Carta was a development of these themes.



As Zimmermann explains in another important article:

At the time of Magna Carta (1215), a royal judge called Henry de Bracton (d. 1268) wrote a massive treatise on principles of law and justice. Bracton is broadly regarded as ‘the father of the common law’, because his book De legibus et consuetudinibus Anglia is one of the most important works on the constitution of medieval England. For Bracton, the application of law implies ‘a just sanction ordering virtue and prohibiting its opposite’, which means that the state law can never depart from God’s higher laws. As Bracton explains, jurisprudence was ‘the science of the just and unjust’. And he also declared that the state is under God and the law, ‘because the law makes the king. For there is no king where will rules rather then the law.’


The Christian faith provided to the people of England a status libertatis (state of liberty) which rested on the Christian presumption that God’s law always works for the good of society. With their conversion to Christianity, the kings of England would no longer possess an arbitrary power over the life and property of individuals, changing the basic laws of the kingdom at pleasure. Rather, they were told about God’s promise in the book Isaiah, to deal with civil authorities who enact unjust laws (Isaiah 10:1). In fact, the Bible contains many passages condemning the perversion of justice by them (Prov 17:15, 24:23; Exo 23:7; Deut 16:18; Hab 1:4; Isa 60:14; Lam 3:34).


And recent research has even further demonstrated the Christians influence and underpinnings of this document.
New research suggests that Magna Carta may have been published predominantly by the church – rather than the Royal government of the day.
The revelations – announced as Britain prepares to commemorate the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta – shed remarkable new light on the politics behind the issuing of the charter.


Magna Carta forever changed the world, and we still are enjoying the fruit of this overwhelmingly Christian document. But the tragedy is, the Western world is quickly renouncing its Christian past. And with it, it is renouncing freedom, democracy and rule of law.
Magna Carta: The Christian Connection - CultureWatch




Magna Carta: New research sheds light on the church's role in publishing world-famous charter




The new research has “important historical implications,” said the University of East Anglia’s Professor of Medieval History, Nicholas Vincent.

He now believes that those aware of Magna Carta in the 13th century “would have seen not a royal charter, but something produced, published, preserved and even physically written by the English church.”

“What contemporaries would have seen in Magna Carta, both as texts and as physical artefact, was an ecclesiastical document.
Magna Carta: New research sheds light on the church's role in publishing world-famous charter | The Independent
 
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America is a secular nation, not a religious nation. Therefor, it is not a Christian nation.


You can call it anything you want! You can claim what you think it is not.
If it makes you feel so much better - hey, then deny it!
Isn't that how it goes now in our current climate?

But......we can't ignore the facts.

The Constitution is based on Christian principles. :shrug:
Americans are adhering to the Constitution - which is based on Christian principles!


Plus with majority of Americans being Chrsitians!
Well, I can call it a Christian nation - I say, AMERICA IS A CHRISTIAN NATION -


and I've got some facts to back me up! So, there!
 
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You can call it anything you want! You can claim what you think it is not. If it makes you feel so much better - hey, then deny it!

But......we can't ignore the facts. The Constitution is based on Christian principles. :shrug:
Americans are adhering to the Constitution.

The constitution never once mentions christianity. Not even once.


You would think people that wanted to form a Christian country would at least mention that in the most important document in the country.


We are not a Christian nation
 
Hah! Even your official motto is about God!


And now, we know too which particular God they refer to!

The GOD of ABRAHAM!
 
Hah! Even your official motto is about God!


And now, we know too which particular God they refer to!

The GOD of ABRAHAM!

That's nice.


But we are not a Christian nation
 
The constitution never once mentions christianity. Not even once.

You would think people that wanted to form a Christian country would at least mention that in the most important document in the country.

We are not a Christian nation
:lol:

You're really having a hard time grasping it, eh? :mrgreen:

Why would it single out Christianity when it is about rulers and kings, and the rule of Law?
Aren't Jews or any ruler, given the same mandate of ruling and judging fairly, by the Creator?

Lol. It wouldn't be Christian if it mentions Christianity in particular - would it?
It wouldn't show equality, and fairness!
 
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:lol:

You're having a hard time grasping it, eh? :mrgreen:

Lol. It wouldn't be Christian if it mentions Christianity - would it?
It wouldn't show equality, and fairness!

Right. That is why we are not a Christian nation
 
This thread has played out in a very predictable way.

Trying to claim the US is a "Christian Nation," or Christian State, denotes official endorsement, and no where in our Constitution or laws or any of the supporting documentation from the period of our founding is the suggestion... as in anywhere... that there was ever intention for the US to endorse Christianity in some sort of official way as being above or recognized first over all other religions. In fact, the 1st Amendment says the exact opposite.

Congress freaking out over a political ideology and/or a foreign nation and placing "in god we trust" on currency or "under god" in the pledge does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is those in charge at the time did something that inched the nation in a direction they were happy with, but it was never official endorsement.

The overwhelming majority of the nation recognizing some splinter of Christianity does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is that organized religion and evangelicalism have figured out a way to continue.

Having various and arguably more Christian traditions or social influences or even recognizing a holiday does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is that organized religion and evangelicalism have injected themselves in the political process as the goal is telling others how to live.

Watching Congress have a prayer before deciding on which day it becomes "Corvette Day" does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is those in charge still believe that prayer is better than critical thought.

Seeing various government leaders every now and then claim the US is a "Christian Nation" does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that does is rally the crowd into foolish assumptions in exchange for a vote, and aid in the continuance of us vs. them mentality.

The only way for this nation to be a Christian Nation is a Constitutional change so that somewhere it is said "The US recognizes Christianity as our official religion above all other religions, extending exclusive privileges to Christianity and qualifications from Christianity to serve this nation." That would be official endorsement of a religion.

It does not matter how many documents from early on in this nation's history are found. The truth is the founding of this nation was expressly against the idea of linking organized church with representative governance. There was such a bad taste in everyone's mouth from the recent history across Europe and organized religion that at the time of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, fewer people went to church and less often. Various religious ideologies tried to compete at the State and local levels, sometimes engaging in outlandish nonsense or coming up with various laws that appealed to a splinter of Christianity. But our founders were terrified of the idea of religion dominating a system of governance, and knew all too well it would result in religious persecution and ultimately loss of life.

As such official endorsement was not the goal at the Federal level, and there is no reasonable argument that the US is a Christian Nation. None.

Anyone is welcome to be a Christian, and we have various splinters taking that to the extreme, but we do not endorse that above all others. Ever.
 
Right. That is why we are not a Christian nation

Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
You're following the Christian principles!

Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

…….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.
 
Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
You're following the Christian principles!

Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

…….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.

Nope. If the founders wanted it to be a Christian nation they would have said so. They did not.


They did not want to form a Christian nation. That much is crystal clear
 
…..with majority of Americans identifying as Christians. 70.6%
That's the latest figure I can find.

Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center


Thus, to say that the USA is not a Christian nation, is open to interpretation.

We can say that it's not officially declared as a Christian nation out of consideration to
non-Christian population, but we can see all the way back to the founding fathers that the foundation of this nation is grounded on Christian values.



Only 23% for (atheists, agnostics and "nones").

The “nones,” a category that includes people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular,” now make up 23% of U.S. adults, up from 16% in 2007. But there is more to the story.
To begin with, this group is not uniformly nonreligious.
Most of them say they believe in God, and about a third say religion is at least somewhat important in their lives.


Religious 'nones' becoming more secular | Pew Research Center

A Christian Nations is exclusionary. Refer to KKK.

A nation with Christians is inclusionary.

Which one do you prefer?
 
You, too.....are entitled to your opinion. :shrug:

What opinion i didnt give you one i simply pointed out an actual fact that nothing you posted makes it a christian nation, state or country .. nothing. Disagree? then prove otherwise, you wont cause you cant.

:popcorn2:
 
Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
You're following the Christian principles!

Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

…….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.

There are lots of influences on American culture and government. A bigger influence, I would argue, are influences from the ancient pagan Greeks and Romans. All you have to do is look at the architecture of the government buildings in DC. You would think you were in ancient Rome. Greco-Roman political philosophies, from Plato's Republic and Aristotle's Politics to the writings of Cicero and Seneca, from the precedent of Athenian democracy to the Roman Republic and Roman senate, are far more influential on our system of government than anything in Christianity.

So does that mean we should be offering up burnt offering to Athena and Jupiter now?
 
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A Christian Nations is exclusionary. Refer to KKK.

Wrong!

That would be like saying a French home is closed to everyone non-French!
Or, a secular nation is exclusionary - that, it isn't open to religious people!

Goodness! Paranoia run amuck! :lol:




A nation with Christians is inclusionary.

But it isn't an accurate description for the USA.

The accurate description would be USA is a Christian nation with non-Christians.


….or, much better yet - no one should come out and say: USA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!

Why does anyone even have to say that USA is not a Christian nation.....unless they are deliberately being offensive to a particular group.


It isn't right, let alone politically correct to appropriate the foundation/history of a nation
(by taking away the main contributors to its Constitution, and ignoring the fact that 76% of the citizenry are Christians!) Lol.



The founding fathers were trying to do right by establishing a separation of church and state, in order to be able to deliver the freedoms with equality and fairness, as mandated by the Bible to any ruler/king.


But just because the nation isn't officially declared a Christian nation, does not mean it is not!

The foundation/rule of law is grounded on Christian principles, derived from the Magna Carta which was drafted and written and published by Christian clergy, and 76% of US citizens are Christians! Lol.

If it smells like a duck - it walks like a duck -it looks like a duck (which is an understatement in this case) - what else could it be, but a duck!



Like the article explained:
we're all enjoying democratic freedom - thanks to its Christian foundation!

So......


Deliberate mis-appropriation ......or, fair acknowledgement.

Which one do you prefer?
 
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Wrong!

That would be like saying a French home is closed to everyone non-French!
Or, a secular nation is exclusionary - that, it isn't open to religious people!

Goodness! Paranoia run amuck! :lol:





But it isn't an accurate description for the USA.

The accurate description would be USA is a Christian nation with non-Christians.


….or, much better yet - no one should come out and say: USA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!

It isn't right, let alone politically correct to appropriate the foundation/history of a nation (by taking away the main contributors to its Constitution, and ignoring the fact that 76% of the citizenry are Christians!) Lol.

Mis-appropriating with malice......or, fair acknowledgement.

Which one do you prefer?

So what would that mean in terms of what we should do or how we should treat people?
 
Refer to your Constitution/rule of law!

What does Christianity have anything to do with it? This is what the people who wrote them say about what it has to do with it:

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson

So you want to tell us the authors of those documents had no idea what they were talking about?
 
There are lots of influences on American culture and government.

Of course there are different cultures! Different peoples from all over the world had come to this New World!
A lot of those people had also come from nations that worship the Abrahamic God!
Like the Jews, as an example! Same God worshipped by the Christians!
Same God who gave the mandate!



So does that mean we should be offering up burnt offering to Athena and Jupiter now?


What does your Constitution say about those?
 
Of course there are different cultures! Different peoples from all over the world had come to this New World!
A lot of those people had also come from nations that worship the Abrahamic God!
Like the Jews, as an example!
Same God worshipped by the Christians! Same God who gave the mandate!






What does your Constitution say about those?

I was talking about ancient pagan Greek and Roman political philosophy, not immigrants to this country. You do know that our founding fathers were avid students of their writings, don’t you?
 
Wrong!

That would be like saying a French home is closed to everyone non-French!
Or, a secular nation is exclusionary - that, it isn't open to religious people!

Goodness! Paranoia run amuck! :lol:






But it isn't an accurate description for the USA.

The accurate description would be USA is a Christian nation with non-Christians.


….or, much better yet - no one should come out and say: USA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!

Why does anyone even have to say that USA is not a Christian nation.....unless they are deliberately being offensive to a particular group.


It isn't right, let alone politically correct to appropriate the foundation/history of a nation (by taking away the main contributors to its Constitution, and ignoring the fact that 76% of the citizenry are Christians!) Lol.




Deliberate mis-appropriation ......or, fair acknowledgement.

Which one do you prefer?

Our country is based on inclusiveness. "Christian Nation" sounds pretty exclusive to me. When I think CHristian Nationalism.....I think of the WORST subsets of Christianity - KKK and such.

Yes, we were founded as a nation with primarily Christians.

But our principles call for inclusiveness. "Christian Nation" ? Not so much.

Christian Nationalism sounds like it could incorporate the worst parts of Christianity - those that exploit for personal or political purposes.

Call it what you want. But it will still evoke Birth of a Nation to me. YMMV.
 
You, too.....are entitled to your opinion. :shrug:

What opinion i didnt give you one i simply pointed out an actual fact that nothing you posted makes it a christian nation, state or country .. nothing. Disagree? then prove otherwise, you wont cause you cant.

:popcorn2:

Chrickets!!!
Just like I thought!
 
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