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Thread: America is NOT a christian nation

  1. #61
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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post


    You're having a hard time grasping it, eh?

    Lol. It wouldn't be Christian if it mentions Christianity - would it?
    It wouldn't show equality, and fairness!
    Right. That is why we are not a Christian nation

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    This thread has played out in a very predictable way.

    Trying to claim the US is a "Christian Nation," or Christian State, denotes official endorsement, and no where in our Constitution or laws or any of the supporting documentation from the period of our founding is the suggestion... as in anywhere... that there was ever intention for the US to endorse Christianity in some sort of official way as being above or recognized first over all other religions. In fact, the 1st Amendment says the exact opposite.

    Congress freaking out over a political ideology and/or a foreign nation and placing "in god we trust" on currency or "under god" in the pledge does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is those in charge at the time did something that inched the nation in a direction they were happy with, but it was never official endorsement.

    The overwhelming majority of the nation recognizing some splinter of Christianity does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is that organized religion and evangelicalism have figured out a way to continue.

    Having various and arguably more Christian traditions or social influences or even recognizing a holiday does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is that organized religion and evangelicalism have injected themselves in the political process as the goal is telling others how to live.

    Watching Congress have a prayer before deciding on which day it becomes "Corvette Day" does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that means is those in charge still believe that prayer is better than critical thought.

    Seeing various government leaders every now and then claim the US is a "Christian Nation" does not qualify as a government official endorsement of Christianity over all other religions, or the absence of religion, protected by the Constitution. All that does is rally the crowd into foolish assumptions in exchange for a vote, and aid in the continuance of us vs. them mentality.

    The only way for this nation to be a Christian Nation is a Constitutional change so that somewhere it is said "The US recognizes Christianity as our official religion above all other religions, extending exclusive privileges to Christianity and qualifications from Christianity to serve this nation." That would be official endorsement of a religion.

    It does not matter how many documents from early on in this nation's history are found. The truth is the founding of this nation was expressly against the idea of linking organized church with representative governance. There was such a bad taste in everyone's mouth from the recent history across Europe and organized religion that at the time of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, fewer people went to church and less often. Various religious ideologies tried to compete at the State and local levels, sometimes engaging in outlandish nonsense or coming up with various laws that appealed to a splinter of Christianity. But our founders were terrified of the idea of religion dominating a system of governance, and knew all too well it would result in religious persecution and ultimately loss of life.

    As such official endorsement was not the goal at the Federal level, and there is no reasonable argument that the US is a Christian Nation. None.

    Anyone is welcome to be a Christian, and we have various splinters taking that to the extreme, but we do not endorse that above all others. Ever.
    "Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Right. That is why we are not a Christian nation
    Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
    You're following the Christian principles!

    Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

    …….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

    That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
    You're following the Christian principles!

    Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

    …….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

    That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.
    Nope. If the founders wanted it to be a Christian nation they would have said so. They did not.


    They did not want to form a Christian nation. That much is crystal clear

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    …..with majority of Americans identifying as Christians. 70.6%
    That's the latest figure I can find.

    Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center


    Thus, to say that the USA is not a Christian nation, is open to interpretation.

    We can say that it's not officially declared as a Christian nation out of consideration to
    non-Christian population, but we can see all the way back to the founding fathers that the foundation of this nation is grounded on Christian values.



    Only 23% for (atheists, agnostics and "nones").

    The “nones,” a category that includes people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular,” now make up 23% of U.S. adults, up from 16% in 2007. But there is more to the story.
    To begin with, this group is not uniformly nonreligious.
    Most of them say they believe in God, and about a third say religion is at least somewhat important in their lives.


    Religious 'nones' becoming more secular | Pew Research Center
    A Christian Nations is exclusionary. Refer to KKK.

    A nation with Christians is inclusionary.

    Which one do you prefer?

  6. #66
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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    You, too.....are entitled to your opinion.
    What opinion i didnt give you one i simply pointed out an actual fact that nothing you posted makes it a christian nation, state or country .. nothing. Disagree? then prove otherwise, you wont cause you cant.

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    Well it is. The Constitution is based on Christian principles (Magna Carta).
    You're following the Christian principles!

    Citizens and peoples in America may not be all Christian...…..

    …….. but the principles on which the nation is grounded on, is Christian.

    That makes it a Christian nation. Be thankful for that.
    There are lots of influences on American culture and government. A bigger influence, I would argue, are influences from the ancient pagan Greeks and Romans. All you have to do is look at the architecture of the government buildings in DC. You would think you were in ancient Rome. Greco-Roman political philosophies, from Plato's Republic and Aristotle's Politics to the writings of Cicero and Seneca, from the precedent of Athenian democracy to the Roman Republic and Roman senate, are far more influential on our system of government than anything in Christianity.

    So does that mean we should be offering up burnt offering to Athena and Jupiter now?
    Last edited by ataraxia; 10-15-19 at 02:48 PM.

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    A Christian Nations is exclusionary. Refer to KKK.
    Wrong!

    That would be like saying a French home is closed to everyone non-French!
    Or, a secular nation is exclusionary - that, it isn't open to religious people!

    Goodness! Paranoia run amuck!




    A nation with Christians is inclusionary.
    But it isn't an accurate description for the USA.

    The accurate description would be USA is a Christian nation with non-Christians.


    ….or, much better yet - no one should come out and say: USA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!

    Why does anyone even have to say that USA is not a Christian nation.....unless they are deliberately being offensive to a particular group.


    It isn't right, let alone politically correct to appropriate the foundation/history of a nation
    (by taking away the main contributors to its Constitution, and ignoring the fact that 76% of the citizenry are Christians!) Lol.



    The founding fathers were trying to do right by establishing a separation of church and state, in order to be able to deliver the freedoms with equality and fairness, as mandated by the Bible to any ruler/king.


    But just because the nation isn't officially declared a Christian nation, does not mean it is not!

    The foundation/rule of law is grounded on Christian principles, derived from the Magna Carta which was drafted and written and published by Christian clergy, and 76% of US citizens are Christians! Lol.

    If it smells like a duck - it walks like a duck -it looks like a duck (which is an understatement in this case) - what else could it be, but a duck!



    Like the article explained:
    we're all enjoying democratic freedom - thanks to its Christian foundation!

    So......


    Deliberate mis-appropriation ......or, fair acknowledgement.

    Which one do you prefer?
    Last edited by tosca1; 10-15-19 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    Wrong!

    That would be like saying a French home is closed to everyone non-French!
    Or, a secular nation is exclusionary - that, it isn't open to religious people!

    Goodness! Paranoia run amuck!





    But it isn't an accurate description for the USA.

    The accurate description would be USA is a Christian nation with non-Christians.


    ….or, much better yet - no one should come out and say: USA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION!

    It isn't right, let alone politically correct to appropriate the foundation/history of a nation (by taking away the main contributors to its Constitution, and ignoring the fact that 76% of the citizenry are Christians!) Lol.

    Mis-appropriating with malice......or, fair acknowledgement.

    Which one do you prefer?
    So what would that mean in terms of what we should do or how we should treat people?

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    Re: America is NOT a christian nation

    Quote Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
    So what would that mean in terms of what we should do or how we should treat people?
    Refer to your Constitution/rule of law!

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