• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Christians: Why aren't you Muslim?

Hondo said:
Where else are you going to get a virgin? Today, a virgin would be an ugly 3rd grader. Actually, Mary's age is never given in the Bible. Lots of speculation.
Click to expand...

Christians are living in denial. Jewish law would have permitted a 12 year old to marry, so does that make Jesus a supporter of pedophilia? There are many sources saying Mary was a young teenage girl.
 
Elvira said:
Not all Christians believe that...I don't...I believe Jesus is God's son, just as the scriptures claim...I do agree with you that it is a silly belief...so many things wrong with that belief...God cannot pray to Himself, God cannot have His faith in Himself tried by Satan, God cannot resurrect Himself...the list goes on...
Click to expand...

Is it your branch of Christianity, or are you the only person in your church with such beliefs?
 
Hondo said:
Definitely not an incel. Jesus attracted large followers including women. If Jesus was celibate it would have been through choice.
Click to expand...

Well at least you're holding out "if".
Naturally, that opens the door to all the various incarnations of Jesus.
Should I put the Ricky Bobby DVD in?



"Hey Dad, you made that Grace yo bitch!"

jesusandstarbucks.jpg
 
Tlrmln said:
Where do you find that?
Click to expand...

"If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." Romans 12:18;21

And more...Matthew 5:9; Matthew 26:52; Romans 8:6-8; Ephesians 6:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:13; 2 Timothy 2:22-24; Hebrews 12:14; James 3:18; 1 Peter 3:11; 2 Peter 3:14...
 
SheWolf said:
Is it your branch of Christianity, or are you the only person in your church with such beliefs?
Click to expand...

We are in agreement...all 8 1/2 million of us worldwide...
 
SheWolf said:
Christians are living in denial. Jewish law would have permitted a 12 year old to marry, so does that make Jesus a supporter of pedophilia? There are many sources saying Mary was a young teenage girl.
Click to expand...

We don't know how old Mary was, that's all that I'm saying. Kids grew up faster in the ancient world. Bar and Bat Mitzvah are 13 and 12. Lot was 14 when he asked Uncle Abe for some land. We know Muhammad had a 9 year-old wife. I don't know if he had sex with the 9 year-old, but it makes a good joke.

What is a sad joke today is that Americans are nowhere near as mature as they once were just decades ago. My parents expected a lot. When I was 18, I felt like a man. I was raised to be responsible. Parents were totally absent from college campus even at orientation. Now, at my alma mater, parents are in line with kids guiding them through scheduling their courses. Parents weren't allowed in the dorms at my college campus. If a girl needed a fridge carried up to the 4th floor, they snagged us guys. Since it was a Catholic college with no co-ed dorms, we'd be standing there in the elevator holding fridges, "Men on 4th Floor! Men on 4th Floor!" I think even that helped us grow up by creating an environment where we are now the grown-ups.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Well at least you're holding out "if".
Naturally, that opens the door to all the various incarnations of Jesus.
Should I put the Ricky Bobby DVD in?



"Hey Dad, you made that Grace yo bitch!"

View attachment 67264249
Click to expand...


I would bet "The Buddy Christ" is closer to the truth than Renaissance art. Images are powerful tools that shape our thoughts of the divine. Christmas is a much nicer holiday than Easter. Thinking about the hope of a baby Jesus and the wonderment of a child exploring the world is a lot more heartwarming than a man experiencing flogging and crucifixion -- even if it has a happy ending. Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" Mankind is searching for their own answers. For the religious, they find some.
 
Hondo said:
I would bet "The Buddy Christ" is closer to the truth than Renaissance art. Images are powerful tools that shape our thoughts of the divine. Christmas is a much nicer holiday than Easter. Thinking about the hope of a baby Jesus and the wonderment of a child exploring the world is a lot more heartwarming than a man experiencing flogging and crucifixion -- even if it has a happy ending. Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" Mankind is searching for their own answers. For the religious, they find some.
Click to expand...

Xmas and Easter are pagan festivals.
 
Most people have a religion. Always have. Nowadays it might be secular.
 
zyzygy said:
Xmas and Easter are pagan festivals.
Click to expand...

Yes, they are, but adopted by Christianity. Holidays can change meaning or culture. When my mother was born in the 1930's, November 11 was Armistice Day. Now, we call it Veteran's Day. The meaning was changed. I would bet if you asked most every American the meaning of Cinco de Mayo they would have never heard of the Battle of Puebla or even know the French had been in Mexico. It's a day to drink too much Mexican beer and get sick on Chimichanga and burritos.
 
Elvira said:
"If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." Romans 12:18;21

And more...Matthew 5:9; Matthew 26:52; Romans 8:6-8; Ephesians 6:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:13; 2 Timothy 2:22-24; Hebrews 12:14; James 3:18; 1 Peter 3:11; 2 Peter 3:14...
Click to expand...

I thought you were talking about actual evidence, not a circular argument.
 
Hondo said:
Yes, they are, but adopted by Christianity. Holidays can change meaning or culture. When my mother was born in the 1930's, November 11 was Armistice Day. Now, we call it Veteran's Day. The meaning was changed. I would bet if you asked most every American the meaning of Cinco de Mayo they would have never heard of the Battle of Puebla or even know the French had been in Mexico. It's a day to drink too much Mexican beer and get sick on Chimichanga and burritos.
Click to expand...

But should they be observed by Christians, considering what the Bible says on how God feels about paganism? That is the $64,000 question...
 
Tlrmln said:
I thought you were talking about actual evidence, not a circular argument.
Click to expand...

Being peaceable is a true mark of a Christian, according to the Bible...no more evidence is needed...
 
Waddy said:
Most people have a religion. Always have. Nowadays it might be secular.
Click to expand...

My religion is the oft-confirmed belief that nothing screws up goodness, generosity, love, kindness, grace and understanding the way organized religion does. Of course not everyone IN organized religion does this, but it is the nature of the beast, and those who manage to do good are often outliers. Indeed, some who try to do the most good are often ostracized in their own congregation. Again, it is in the nature of organized religion so it is no surprise.

"I love your Christ, but so many of your Christians are so unlike him."
(Gandhi)

Side note: I was raised Catholic by my mother, under orders from the Church because she married a Jewish man, then I was told immediately before my Confirmation that my spiritual fate might be in question "as the product of an unholy union" and thus my salvation was not assured.
That was the end of my Catholic upbringing.

I studied Buddhism, studied Judaism and along the way to adulthood I dabbled in a few variants, then when I married my second (and final - keeper) wife we joined the local Nazarene church.

I arrived at my conclusions from direct personal experience. This is not a failing of Christianity alone, it is apparently the nature of all organized religions.
 
Hondo said:
We don't know how old Mary was, that's all that I'm saying. Kids grew up faster in the ancient world. Bar and Bat Mitzvah are 13 and 12. Lot was 14 when he asked Uncle Abe for some land. We know Muhammad had a 9 year-old wife. I don't know if he had sex with the 9 year-old, but it makes a good joke.

What is a sad joke today is that Americans are nowhere near as mature as they once were just decades ago. My parents expected a lot. When I was 18, I felt like a man. I was raised to be responsible. Parents were totally absent from college campus even at orientation. Now, at my alma mater, parents are in line with kids guiding them through scheduling their courses. Parents weren't allowed in the dorms at my college campus. If a girl needed a fridge carried up to the 4th floor, they snagged us guys. Since it was a Catholic college with no co-ed dorms, we'd be standing there in the elevator holding fridges, "Men on 4th Floor! Men on 4th Floor!" I think even that helped us grow up by creating an environment where we are now the grown-ups.
Click to expand...

Some people don’t think that calling god a pedophile is funny
 
Elvira said:
Being peaceable is a true mark of a Christian, according to the Bible...no more evidence is needed...
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain why you believe anything the bible says. You can be "peaceable" without it.
 
Tlrmln said:
That doesn't explain why you believe anything the bible says. You can be "peaceable" without it.
Click to expand...

You can...that was not my point...how many Christian organizations do you know of who follow the Bible's guidance on that? Or this one...

"By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”" John 13:35

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." 1 John 4:20
 
Elvira said:
Wrong...one fruit of true religion is peace between men of all nationalities and races...
Click to expand...

That statement would support there is no true religion, since war exists.
 
Elvira said:
That is a lie...
Click to expand...

Please show there is no war. That is the fruit. That is the first requirement to show a 'true religion'.
 
Elvira said:
But should they be observed by Christians, considering what the Bible says on how God feels about paganism? That is the $64,000 question...
Click to expand...

Some Christians ask the same thing. I love Halloween. We had Halloween parties in school and in church. My ex-girlfriend, Darla, a Choctaw from Colorado was a Christian who would never let her kids trick or treat. Her church celebrated an alternative holiday. Halloween has already been Christianized. In fact, Halloween might actually be the only Christian holiday not taken from paganism. No direct path of appropriation is known such as with Christmas. With Christ's mass, Christians aren't celebrating a pagan god. My girlfriend's favorite part of Christmas is when we go to midnight mass. She's Catholic and went to Catholic school. I'm Protestant. One of my favorite Christmas TV shows is the History Channel's documentary about the history of Christmas beginning with the pagans. Halloween Christmas were my favorite holidays. I never knew Christmas was even a former pagan holiday until I was older. The most secular idea of Christmas in my experience was Santa Claus Is Coming To Town and Rudolph. I honestly hope that social justice warriors don't go after Cinco de Mayo. I like Chimichanga and it's probably the only day of the year I might have a beer. Alcohol reminds me of CPR class before bleach.

I think God, if you believe in God, is far more complex than we could ever understand. When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the father, but by me." Is that a literal believe in Christ? Or, does God's spirit somehow transcend first century Galilee? The Christian in me simply follows the religion into which I was born. It's been a choice to follow that path my entire life. Am I opened minded that I might be wrong? Of course. Do I believe that God's chosen people are the Israelis? Yeah. I do. Jews are supposed to be an example to the world and I think they do an excellent job of living their faith -- especially in Israel. Many Jews in America are secular and "Jewish" is an identity and history more than a faith. Monothesitic thought even existed in ancient Egypt. I think Christianity needs to look more toward rabbinical thought for its roots to better understand itself. I think Muslims do an excellent job of living their faith, but Islam is propelling followers backward instead of forward. This was Tehran University before 1979:

03.jpg
 
SheWolf said:
Some people don’t think that calling god a pedophile is funny
Click to expand...

And, I don't care anymore about offending them than atheists care about offending Christians or Muslims care about offending Christians.

But, as a lifeguard and cave rescue diver, I'd risk my life and perhaps die to save all of the above. My last ocean surf rescue was of an atheist. That same guy is my best friend today. I taught him to swim after that and taught him to become a scuba instructor. He was a ballet dancer from NYC. Now, he's a 40-something (Funny. I don't even know when my best friend's birthday is or his exact age and I had to write it down on lots of forms over the years.) sommelier who teaches scuba part-time. I'd help anyone who needed it. God tells us to help others. He never said I had to whisper sweet nothings in their ears while doing it. I don't mean that to sound rude in response to you. Just making a point.
 
Hondo said:
Some Christians ask the same thing. I love Halloween. We had Halloween parties in school and in church. My ex-girlfriend, Darla, a Choctaw from Colorado was a Christian who would never let her kids trick or treat. Her church celebrated an alternative holiday. Halloween has already been Christianized. In fact, Halloween might actually be the only Christian holiday not taken from paganism. No direct path of appropriation is known such as with Christmas. With Christ's mass, Christians aren't celebrating a pagan god. My girlfriend's favorite part of Christmas is when we go to midnight mass. She's Catholic and went to Catholic school. I'm Protestant. One of my favorite Christmas TV shows is the History Channel's documentary about the history of Christmas beginning with the pagans. Halloween Christmas were my favorite holidays. I never knew Christmas was even a former pagan holiday until I was older. The most secular idea of Christmas in my experience was Santa Claus Is Coming To Town and Rudolph. I honestly hope that social justice warriors don't go after Cinco de Mayo. I like Chimichanga and it's probably the only day of the year I might have a beer. Alcohol reminds me of CPR class before bleach.

I think God, if you believe in God, is far more complex than we could ever understand. When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the father, but by me." Is that a literal believe in Christ? Or, does God's spirit somehow transcend first century Galilee? The Christian in me simply follows the religion into which I was born. It's been a choice to follow that path my entire life. Am I opened minded that I might be wrong? Of course. Do I believe that God's chosen people are the Israelis? Yeah. I do. Jews are supposed to be an example to the world and I think they do an excellent job of living their faith -- especially in Israel. Many Jews in America are secular and "Jewish" is an identity and history more than a faith. Monothesitic thought even existed in ancient Egypt. I think Christianity needs to look more toward rabbinical thought for its roots to better understand itself. I think Muslims do an excellent job of living their faith, but Islam is propelling followers backward instead of forward. This was Tehran University before 1979:

View attachment 67264253
Click to expand...

I used to celebrate all the pagan holidays, Halloween included...until I became a Christian and came to the realization that God hates anything to do with paganism and He commands us to stay away from it if we wish to take a stand for true worship...even some so called "Christian doctrines" have roots stemming from paganism...

"You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons." 1 Corinthians 10:21
 
RAMOSS said:
Please show there is no war. That is the fruit. That is the first requirement to show a 'true religion'.
Click to expand...

Well, obviously you don't understand...if there were no more wars, that would mean all people are worshipers of Jehovah now, wouldn't it? Don't worry, it will happen...;)

"They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:9
 
Elvira said:
I used to celebrate all the pagan holidays, Halloween included...until I became a Christian and came to the realization that God hates anything to do with paganism and He commands us to stay away from it if we wish to take a stand for true worship...even some so called "Christian doctrines" have roots stemming from paganism...

"You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons." 1 Corinthians 10:21
Click to expand...


But, we aren't drinking the cup of demons.

1 Corinthians 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that "An idol is nothing at all in the world" and that "There is no God but one."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom