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Thread: Praying for Protection

  1. #371
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    Rich2018's Avatar
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    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, that is not true, and your own word useage shows you agree. In your parlance, a right is the "should", not the "is"....
    Yes and it's totally subjective

    Rights are what you have, not what you wish you had.


    ...a right does not infringe on the rights of others...
    That's your belief, not one who believes in honor killings

    What are your list of "Natural Rights"
    What is your criteria for them ?

    ...you have a right to pursue happiness...
    Says who ?

    If it made me happy to become first violin in an orchestra, is that a natural right
    If yes what about the other guy who wanted it but was rejected when I got the job.


    ...Because a slave should be free. Do you disagree with that?
    In 1776 slaves should be free but they weren't


    ...if you truly believed that then you would forgo all political opinion because what is today is what it should be...
    How is wishing for rights I don't have, forgoing all political opinion ?

    ...the state doesn't grant rights, the state only impedes rights or protects rights. It doesn't grant them....
    In 1776 the infant USA thought it granted the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
    Today you have the rights that the Constitution and other laws give yu

    If you can't exercise a right, you don't have it whether you think it natural or not.

    ...if you believe that ownership of self is an illusion and future theft is the proof, then you don't own yourself ..
    I have no idea what you're saying here. The mind is something that can't be owned. You can't monitor and therefore control my thoughts


    ...the law is to protect your rights, not to grant them to you. By your argument a person who has stolen your phone is the rightful owner....
    No, merely that ownership is a legal status a theft is a crime
    Oh and the law can grant you rights, if you're arrested, the police have to read you your rights
    Oh and double by the way, the Constitution grants you rights and it is the law.

    ...you have the ABILITY to exercise a right even if the law tells you not to. People buy marijuana all the time even when the law tells them not to...
    Exactly

    The state grants you your rights. The state will tell you what rights you are permitted to exercise.

    ...my RIGHT is the expression of what I SHOULD be able to to, my RIGHT is what drives me to abolish the law that impedes my effort to exercise my right. Again (and again and again and again) a right is not an outcome...
    Provided the state lets you do it

    ...there is a simple calculus to natural rights that reduces rights to a set group of indivisible truths that are self evident...
    Then what are they ?

  2. #372
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    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    If rights don't guarantee outcomes, they are meaningless
    That is like saying that laws against murder wont stop someone from killing you so they are meaningless. The right establishes that laws that infringe on the right are wrong.

    and really no different than the ability to fulfill a need.
    Well no, the right is the right to try, ability is the chance of success.

    Having the right to live means nothing if one can't avail themselves of the necessities to keep living.
    that depends on what prevents them. The right to life drives a shared respect for life. It drove the founding fathers to create a system of government the preserves rights rather than denies all rights and only grant access to what the state desires.
    A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. ― C.S. Lewis

  3. #373
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    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is like saying that laws against murder wont stop someone from killing you so they are meaningless. The right establishes that laws that infringe on the right are wrong.



    Well no, the right is the right to try, ability is the chance of success.



    that depends on what prevents them. The right to life drives a shared respect for life. It drove the founding fathers to create a system of government the preserves rights rather than denies all rights and only grant access to what the state desires.
    Now you are comparing a law to a right. They are entirely different things. The law is the only thing that matters. It does not need to be justified by the concept of rights. Laws were established well before the concept of rights. Our laws came from the tradition of English common law, not from some vague concept of rights.

    There is no right to life that drives anything. There is a desire to live, which often drives competition for resources. Without the enforcing power of the state, rights are meaningless platitudes.

    A right to try something is not really a right at all. It is the ability to try. I can try to feed myself because I want and need to, not because of some made up concept of a right to do it. Human beings take action because they can, not because some invisible rights allow them to.
    Remember Bowling Green! Remember Atlanta! Remember Sweden!

  4. #374
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    Re: Praying for Protection

    Rights don't exist without laws to guarantee them.

    These rights vary from country to country.

    Claiming that a right should exist is like claiming a law should exist.


    I think the US Constitution should be ripped up and replaced by a 21st century document of Constitution.


    The new Constitution could spell out what rights are given in the USA.

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