Page 35 of 38 FirstFirst ... 253334353637 ... LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 374

Thread: Praying for Protection

  1. #341
    Sage
    devildavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,244

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, not really. Basic needs are a product of the actions, not the rights themselves. A person has the right to feed themselves, so getting in the way of them feeding themselves infringes on the right. It's a chief difference in the two philosophies, natural rights see rights as processes while man-made-rights see rights as outcomes. The former requires less government and more freedom while the latter requires more government and less freedom.



    Indeed, and you know that to be wrong, and you know that because their is an immutable truth that such acts are wrong.



    I do.



    A right isn't a guaranteed outcome, as I discussed before. It is the ability to seek a desired outcome. Bad outcomes don't negate the right to seek better outcomes.




    No, I am arguing for what individuals seek for themselves. A right is not a shared ideal, it is an individual ideal. You may find happiness in assisting others in their own goal to be happy, well fed, free... it is a nobel goal, but their right to happiness does not require that you assist them as such a demand infringes on your own rights.



    You display your understanding of natural rights in the "should".

    (cont'd)
    Getting in the way of someone feeding themself is infringing on their need and ability to feed themselves. No rights are involved that aren't granted by and backed by the society you exist in. If they exist in a competitive, might makes right society then its whoever competes the best. There is no should, except as dictated and backed up by each society.
    Remember Bowling Green! Remember Atlanta! Remember Sweden!

  2. #342
    Sage
    devildavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,244

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And no matter what rights you imagine you have, you have little ability to stop others from taking it.
    Our abilities to secure our rights comes from the social structure we find ourselves in. Without any backing from society the concept of rights means nothing.
    Remember Bowling Green! Remember Atlanta! Remember Sweden!

  3. #343
    Sage
    Rich2018's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Norcross, Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,482

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    They do exist. I never said that they are universally attainable...
    Then we differ - a right that's not attainable doesn't exist

    If a US Muslim claimed a natural right to perform an honor killing, does he have that right ?

    ...the state has not granted me the right to live. The state does not grant me my freedom. The state can grant me happiness.

    Those things are mine from conception, and they remain mine...
    If you can't exercise it, you don't have it
    You're like a slave saying he should be free

    Natural rights exist on in a person's Utopia of the mind.

    It's a wish list and nothing more.

    ...rights are highly personal, that is the point of rights. You only know you have them when others try to take them from you...
    No, you're speaking about liberties and state granted rights


    ...False. My life and liberty are mine, people may deny me my rights, but that doesn't mean they aren't mine...
    Your mind is yours while you have it

    [quote]...consider your cell phone.. do you own it? By your way of thinking you don't. You are just holding it for the person who will eventually take it from you. Now, who owns your life? Is it you or the person who might take it from you one day? {/quote]

    Poor question, ownership is a legal status, theft is illegal

    ...a right doesn't exist only because you exercise it...
    No, a right exists if you have the ability to exercise it


    ...the government denying you the free expression of a right does not mean the right doesn't exist....
    Yes it does

    If you government denies you what you think is/should be a right, then you don't have it.
    Again you're confused with what should be the case

    ..."what THEY should be allowed to do" full stop, that is infringing on the rights of others. You don't have that right...
    No, I meant you might have a different list of rights you should have..another man might have a diiferent list
    You might disagree with his list and he with yours.

  4. #344
    Sage
    Rich2018's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Norcross, Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,482

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    There does not seem to be a consistent list. That is an indication it is a political tool, rather than anything else.
    It is a personal wish list...two men might have different lists and violently disagree with the list of the other

    So who is right?
    Last edited by Rich2018; 09-10-19 at 08:01 PM.

  5. #345
    Sage

    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    36,932

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    It is a personal wish list...two men might have different lists and violently disagree with the list of the other

    So ho is right?
    If it is a political tool, and a metaphysical concept, then, either, both or neither, and it could all be the same. It's just one big opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

  6. #346
    Sage
    Rich2018's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Norcross, Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,482

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Which doesn't negate my natural rights. They may suspend my privileges; but only temporarily, and will never erase my natural rights....
    If you're arrested you normally have the right to an attorney - this isn't a privilege. It can't be taken away unless it's by a change of law.

    The state can restrict your authority to drive a car without a change in law because driving is a privilege not a right.


    ...ultimately you can have what's willingly given to you...
    Not sure I understand but on the face of it, I agree


    ...providing a "list" sounds rather unnatural...
    As well as impossible for all men.

  7. #347
    Sage
    Rich2018's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Norcross, Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,482

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    If it is a political tool, and a metaphysical concept, then, either, both or neither, and it could all be the same. It's just one big opinion.
    Exactly


    It's an opinion

    A human and personal opinion.

  8. #348
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:20 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    114,065

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Rights don't "happen".


    OM
    So where do they originate from and do you get them?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #349
    Sage
    Logicman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:04 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,326

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    It is sad to see you reject the truth that "pig/swine" was the favored Jewish pejorative directed towards Gentiles of the 1st century CE. Gentiles such as yourself.

    OM
    Nope.

    What do you think is going to happen to you when you belly up? You have a plan for that?
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  10. #350
    Sage

    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    36,932

    Re: Praying for Protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Nope.

    What do you think is going to happen to you when you belly up? You have a plan for that?
    And what do you plan to do when you discover you're wrong, and Satan has been influencing your attitude since that late 60's?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

Page 35 of 38 FirstFirst ... 253334353637 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •