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How does one debate ideology?

No, that isn't my argument, and I'm surprised you misunderstood my position so severely. My argument is that ideology, a system of ideas, is rooted far deeper in human psychology than most people appreciate, and that claiming to only focus on the "truth of what's best for society" is nothing more than being unaware of one's own system of ideas & the value judgments that shape your worldview.

My argument, in short, is that you don't know what the word ideology even means when you write it off as a bad thing, apparently for no particular reason beyond "Nazis and Commies are wrong."

Well, I guess first we need to look at the definition of "ideology".

ideology | Definition of ideology in English by Lexico Dictionaries

"1 A system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy."

"1.1 The set of beliefs characteristic of a social group or individual."

Ideology - Wikipedia

"An ideology is a collection of normative beliefs and values that an individual or group holds for other than purely epistemic reasons.[1] In other words, these rely on basic assumptions about reality that may or may not have any factual basis. The term is especially used to describe systems of ideas and ideals which form the basis of economic or political theories and resultant policies."

"In political science the term is used in a descriptive sense to refer to political belief systems"

So, essentially we have the term "ideology" which is quite vague, however points to a view point which has been made. Therefore individuals will look to their ideology to determine how they should deal with any given situation. I could give many examples of such things.

Then opposed to ideology I'm going to suggest there's something called "fundamental principles". This is like a much weaker version of ideology, and also it doesn't cover everything.

For example a fundamental principle might be that people should have self determination. This doesn't cover every area of life, just how people vote and who they're voting for.

So, I believe that an ideology is bad because it has a tendency of making people partisan, it leads to a lack of thinking, it leads to a sheep mentality.
 
How does one debate ideology?

With LOGIC.

Logic that's supported by facts, is unbeatable.
If you can cite your credible sources - emphasis on CREDIBLE - so much the better, what more
if it comes from an authoritative source (depending on the issue you are debating).

Always double check for credibility before copy/pasting anything from a site. Because it can hurt you.

I find it pays to skim or read your opponent's source - sometimes, the material hurts your opponent's arguments. If you can poke holes at his source, you pull the rug from under him.
 
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With LOGIC.

Logic that's supported by facts, is unbeatable.
If you can cite your credible sources - emphasis on CREDIBLE - so much the better, what more
if it comes from an authoritative source (depending on the issue you are debating).

Always double check for credibility before copy/pasting anything from a site. Because it can hurt you.

I find it pays to skim or read your opponent's source - sometimes, the material hurts your opponent's arguments. If you can poke holes at his source, you pull the rug from under him.

Logic is just one of the tools we have to disprove a given religion.

The usual Theist response is to retreat into their 3 bastions:

In this case is would be god moves in mysterious ways...sure there's evil in the world, sure there's cancer but it's all part of god's plan.
 
Logic is just one of the tools we have to disprove a given religion.

The usual Theist response is to retreat into their 3 bastions:

In this case is would be god moves in mysterious ways...sure there's evil in the world, sure there's cancer but it's all part of god's plan.

Another foolish post...does this sound like God causes evil in the world or diseases such as cancer? Of course, you probably will not understand this, either...:roll:

"So listen to me, you men of understanding:
It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly,
For the Almighty to do wrong!" Job 34:10
 
Another foolish post...does this sound like God causes evil in the world...


Who else creates life on Earth according to you church?

Who created cancer, the Ebola virus, AIDS etc?

And if there is another creator of life, god at least tolerates evil.
 
Who else creates life on Earth according to you church?

Who created cancer, the Ebola virus, AIDS etc?

And if there is another creator of life, god at least tolerates evil.

Satan, the ruler of this world, created evil...read your Bible...:2razz:
 
Satan, the ruler of this world, created evil...read your Bible...:2razz:

Read a science book, cancerous cells, Ebola and AIDS and Onchocerciasis caused by the African Black Fly are forms of life.

Did Satan create these forms of life ?
 
Satan, the ruler of this world, created evil...read your Bible...:2razz:

Funny how you connect dots, but always leave one dot out.

If evil is created by satan, who created satan? Oh right...God.

So god created evil.
 
Read a science book, cancerous cells, Ebola and AIDS and Onchocerciasis caused by the African Black Fly are forms of life.

Did Satan create these forms of life ?

Why does God permit suffering?

Who really is to blame for it?

Humans are to blame for much of the suffering. They fight wars, commit crimes, pollute the environment, often carry on business in a manner motivated by greed rather than concern for their fellowman, and sometimes indulge in habits that they know can be harmful to their health. When they do these things, they hurt others and themselves. Should it be expected that humans would be immune to the consequences of what they do? (Gal. 6:7; Prov. 1:30-33) Is it reasonable to blame God for these things that humans themselves do?

Satan and his demons also share responsibility. The Bible discloses that much suffering is because of the influence of wicked spirits. The suffering for which so many people blame God does not come from him at all.—Rev. 12:12; Acts 10:38; see also pages 363, 364, under the heading “Satan the Devil.”

How did suffering get started? Examination of the causes focuses attention on our first human parents, Adam and Eve. Jehovah God created them perfect and put them in paradise surroundings. If they had obeyed God, they would never have got sick or died. They could have enjoyed perfect human life forever. Suffering was not part of Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. But Jehovah clearly told Adam that continued enjoyment of what He had given them depended on obedience. Obviously, they had to breathe, eat, drink, and sleep in order to continue living. And they had to keep God’s moral requirements in order to enjoy life fully and to be favored with such life forever. But they chose to go their own way, to set their own standards of good and bad, and thus they turned away from God, the Life-Giver. (Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6) Sin led to death. It was as sinners that Adam and Eve produced children, and they could not pass on to their children what they no longer had. All were born in sin, with inclinations toward wrongdoing, weaknesses that could lead to illness, a sinful inheritance that would eventually result in death. Because everyone on earth today was born in sin, all of us experience suffering in various ways.—Gen. 8:21; Rom. 5:12.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 says that “time and unforeseen occurrence” also have a bearing on what happens to us. We may get hurt, not because the Devil directly causes it or because any human does it, but because by chance we are in a place at the wrong moment.

Why does God not do something to bring relief to mankind? Why should we all suffer for something that Adam did?

In the Bible, God tells us how we can avoid much suffering. He has provided the very best counsel on living. When applied, this fills our lives with meaning, results in happy family life, brings us into close association with people who really love one another, and safeguards us against practices that can bring much needless physical suffering. If we ignore that help, is it fair to blame God for the trouble that we bring upon ourselves and others?—2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:97-105.

Jehovah has made provision to end all suffering. He created the first human pair perfect, and he lovingly made every provision so that life would be pleasant for them. When they deliberately turned their backs on God, was God obligated to intervene so as to shield their children from the effects of what the parents had done? (Deut. 32:4, 5; Job 14:4)

But why would a God of love allow the suffering to continue so long?

If God had immediately executed Adam and Eve, following their sin, none of us would be in existence today. Surely that is not what we would want. Moreover, had God at some later time destroyed all who were sinners, we would not have been born. The fact that God has allowed this sinful world to exist until now has afforded us the opportunity to be alive and learn his ways, to make needed changes in our lives, and to avail ourselves of his loving provisions for eternal life. That Jehovah has granted us this opportunity is an evidence of great love on his part. The Bible shows that God has a set time to destroy this wicked system and will do so soon.—Hab. 2:3; Zeph. 1:14.

God can and will undo all the harm that may come upon his servants in this system of things. God is not the one who is causing the suffering. But by means of Jesus Christ, God will raise the dead, heal obedient ones of all their illnesses, root out every trace of sin, and even cause former grief to fade from our minds.—John 5:28, 29; Rev. 21:4; Isa. 65:17.

The time that has elapsed has been needed to settle the issues that were raised in Eden.

Suffering — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Funny how you connect dots, but always leave one dot out.

If evil is created by satan, who created satan? Oh right...God.

So god created evil.

No dots to connect...it is plainly stated in the Bible...

Satan the Devil and his demons are also rulers. He is spoken of as “the ruler of this world” and “the ruler of the authority of the air.” (Joh 12:31; 14:30; Eph 2:2) That all the governments of this world are under his power is indicated by his offering them to Jesus Christ at the price of an act of worship. (Mt 4:8, 9) Satan gives these governments their authority. (Re 13:2) Within his organization the demons also exercise ruling power. They are referred to as “the world rulers of this darkness” who have exercised authority over the world powers of history, as, for example, the invisible ‘princes’ over Persia and Greece. (Eph 6:12; Da 10:13, 20) Their ruler is, of course, the Devil himself.​—Mt 12:24.

Ruler — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Who else creates life on Earth according to you church?

Who created cancer, the Ebola virus, AIDS etc?

And if there is another creator of life, god at least tolerates evil.

That's actually the fundamental issue with all religions.

If nothing were evil and everyone/everything were always pure and good, how would you even know about the possibility of evil? (Where's the story in that?)
 
That's actually the fundamental issue with all religions.

If nothing were evil and everyone/everything were always pure and good, how would you even know about the possibility of evil? (Where's the story in that?)


Yeah I'm a little hazy on this evil thing. What is it?

Who rules in hell? Who is responsible for torturing the lost souls in the fiery lake for all of eternity?
 
I'll ask you again since you retreated into copy and pasting off topic scripture - we're talking about creating LIFE

Cancerous cells, Ebola and AIDS and Onchocerciasis caused by the African Black Fly are forms of life.

Did Satan create these forms of life ?

Of course not, since Jehovah created all things, but perfect life became out of balance when Satan and Adam and Eve disobeyed and sin entered into the picture...as time goes on, it becomes more and more out of balance...that is why mankind will never rid society of disease, old age, and death...only God can and will do that...Revelation 21:4...

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." Romans 5:12
 
Satan, the ruler of this world, created evil...read your Bible...:2razz:

And, according to your religion, who created Satan?

And,why do you think that it says in Isaiah that God created evil?
 
Of course not, since Jehovah created all things, but perfect life became out of balance when Satan and Adam and Eve disobeyed and sin entered into the picture...as time goes on, it becomes more and more out of balance...that is why mankind will never rid society of disease, old age, and death...only God can and will do that...Revelation 21:4...

So because Eve ate of the tree of knowledge and didn't die as god threatened, all of mankind was subject to the nasty effects of these creations by god

Do you know what Onchocerciasis caused by the African Black Fly is?

Were they created in the creation of 6 days or afterwards following the expulsion of A&E?


...that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." Romans 5:12


So Eve eating of the tree caused god to create forms of life that send innocents blind and cripple/kill them?
 
And, according to your religion, who created Satan?

And,why do you think that it says in Isaiah that God created evil?

Satan was an angel of God who made himself the Devil when he rebelled and made himself an enemy of God...as did other angels who made themselves demons by following Satan in his rebellion..Satan is their ruler, just as he is the ruler of this world...

"At hearing this, the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” Matthew 12:24

"You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." John 8:44
 
So because Eve ate of the tree of knowledge and didn't die as god threatened, all of mankind was subject to the nasty effects of these creations by god

Do you know what Onchocerciasis caused by the African Black Fly is?

Were they created in the creation of 6 days or afterwards following the expulsion of A&E?





So Eve eating of the tree caused god to create forms of life that send innocents blind and cripple/kill them?

She did die...she's not here, is she? The rest of your questions are stupid...
 
Yeah I'm a little hazy on this evil thing. What is it?
I think it's like pornography: you know it when you see it.

Who rules in hell?
Whoever thinks it's better than serving in heaven.

Who is responsible for torturing the lost souls in the fiery lake for all of eternity?
I know there's this corporate-like hierarchy of devils and demons, but I don't happen to recall the specific job descriptions...
 
When is equality ever bad? If equality only works for you in certain situations, then it's not truly equal, is it?

If you and I are playing basketball and you are cleaning my clock, and out-shooting me, let us say that I had to have your ankle and wrist broken in order to have a shot at beating you. We are now equals. However, I would not argue that breaking your limbs in order to be on an even footing with you would be equitable.
 
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