• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Turning against Jesus

Elvira said:
The Bible does not support that belief...that is more along the beliefs of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Mormonism and yes, it is the belief in the immortal soul that never/cannot die...the Bible rules out any possible prehuman existence or sinning before birth when it says concerning Esau and Jacob...

“When they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile.” Romans 9:11

When we die, the Bible teaches that our spirit/soul dies along with our body...we were non existent before our birth and we are non existent after our death...the only way we will live again is if Jehovah God desires to resurrect us...

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Job knew and acknowledged this fact when he prayed to die, in order to relieve his suffering...he knew that in death, he would feel no more pain...

"O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" Job 14:13
Click to expand...



God is omniscient and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future. Therefore, He knows who we are before we are. Therefore, we are at least what will be in God's mind. Therefore, that is a form of existence. That's my argument. I know it's not in the Bible. That doesn't mean it isn't so. I'm just saying to be a known in the mind of God is a form of existence.

I'm not sure I got your answer to after-life existence. It is a common Christian belief that there is an existence after death that is a conscious one. Yes? No?
 
bluesmoke said:
God is omniscient and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future. Therefore, He knows who we are before we are. Therefore, we are at least what will be in God's mind. Therefore, that is a form of existence. That's my argument. I know it's not in the Bible. That doesn't mean it isn't so. I'm just saying to be a known in the mind of God is a form of existence.

I'm not sure I got your answer to after-life existence. It is a common Christian belief that there is an existence after death that is a conscious one. Yes? No?
Click to expand...

True, man was created with the prospect of everlasting life IF he remained obedient...we all have that same prospect IF we remain obedient...the concept of the immortal soul, which is something entirely different, came to be intertwined with Christianity, through pagan religions long ago and is in no way supported by Scripture...for example...

Various ancient civilizations, then, held one teaching in common—the immortality of the soul. In Iran, or Persia, to the east, a prophet named Zoroaster appeared on the scene in the seventh century B.C.E. He introduced a way of worship that came to be known as Zoroastrianism. This was the religion of the Persian Empire, which dominated the world scene before Greece became a major power. The Zoroastrian scriptures say: “In Immortality shall the soul of the Righteous be ever in Joy, but in torment the soul of the Liar shall surely be. And these Laws hath Ahura Mazda [meaning, “a wise god”] ordained through His sovereign authority.”

Belief in life after death was central to Egyptian religion. The Egyptians held that the soul of the dead person would be judged by Osiris, the chief god of the underworld. For example, a papyrus document claimed to be from the 14th century B.C.E. shows Anubis, god of the dead, leading the soul of the scribe Hunefer before Osiris.
Click to expand...

Immortality of the Soul—The Birth of the Doctrine — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Elvira said:
True, man was created with the prospect of everlasting life IF he remained obedient...we all have that same prospect IF we remain obedient...the concept of the immortal soul, which is something entirely different, came to be intertwined with Christianity, through pagan religions long ago and is in no way supported by Scripture...for example...



Immortality of the Soul—The Birth of the Doctrine — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Click to expand...

And man failed the test, day one. Game over.
 
Elvira said:
True, man was created with the prospect of everlasting life IF he remained obedient...we all have that same prospect IF we remain obedient..
Click to expand...


Obedient??? Like a friggin dog? That's laughable and rather sad too.

God, assuming there is one, never ever intended for us to be obedient little robots. It's obvious on every level.
There's absolutely NOTHING to suggest the path we've taken is NOT the path "he/she" intended us to take.

"Satan" did not steer us wrong. Satan is responsible for nothing.

"God" is 110% responsible for everything and all things that happened, are happening, and will happen for ever and ever.

To suggest otherwise negates the very concept of "god" on every level.
 
dragonfly said:
obedient??? Like a friggin dog? That's laughable and rather sad too.

God, assuming there is one, never ever intended for us to be obedient little robots. It's obvious on every level.
There's absolutely nothing to suggest the path we've taken is not the path "he/she" intended us to take.

"satan" did not steer us wrong. Satan is responsible for nothing.

"god" is 110% responsible for everything and all things that happened, are happening, and will happen for ever and ever.

To suggest otherwise negates the very concept of "god" on every level.
Click to expand...

bs...
 
Rich2018 said:
Typical response as inevitable as it is depressing.

When faced with a real argument you either spot meaningless scripture or dismiss it with a hint of a reason.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because I've addressed it all before...
 
Elvira said:
Yeah, because I've addressed it all before...
Click to expand...

Ah yes and the familiar suffix of "It's all there in the thread history and/or a public library, go look for it until you prove me right"

Since you have made a positive claim, aren't you confident to repeat your evidence (assuming for a second you have actually previously answered, which in my experience with you, is a slim hope) ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Ah yes and the familiar suffix of "It's all there in the thread history and/or a public library, go look for it until you prove me right"

Since you have made a positive claim, aren't you confident to repeat your evidence (assuming for a second you have actually previously answered, which in my experience with you, is a slim hope) ?
Click to expand...

Quite the contrary...I am confident enough to not have to repeat myself...
 
Elvira said:
Imperfect beings can produce only imperfect offspring...Psalm 51:5; Matthew 7:16-20; Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:22...of course, Jehovah could've destroyed Adam and Eve before they produced offspring, but then we would not be here, would we...instead He gave their offspring a chance for life, and in that process, to show whether or not they would be obedient to Him or follow in the footsteps of their 1st human parents...as to why we were created...because He wanted to...no other explanation is needed...
Click to expand...

God created imperfect beings. Otherwise, they would not have caused him any problem.

Why did he want to?
 
devildavid said:
God created imperfect beings. Otherwise, they would not have caused him any problem.

Why did he want to?
Click to expand...

God created Adam and Eve perfect...without sin...with the prospect of living forever...when they sinned, they became imperfect...and began the death process...
 
Elvira said:
God created Adam and Eve perfect...without sin...with the prospect of living forever...when they sinned, they became imperfect...and began the death process...
Click to expand...

They "became" imperfect? That makes no sense. The only thing they did was disobey god. They were able to do that because of free will. Having free will made them imperfect. God gave them that imperfection, because in this case perfection can only mean perfect obedience to god. Which is impossible if you have free will. So how exactly were they perfect?
 
devildavid said:
They "became" imperfect? That makes no sense. The only thing they did was disobey god. They were able to do that because of free will. Having free will made them imperfect. God gave them that imperfection, because in this case perfection can only mean perfect obedience to god. Which is impossible if you have free will. So how exactly were they perfect?
Click to expand...

Sorry you can't comprehend that...
 
devildavid said:
Disobedience is not possible without free will and a tyrant setting down rules.
Click to expand...

So, just continue to serve your god, Satan...see where that gets ya...
 
devildavid said:
Satan is a god? Is this your polytheism again?
Click to expand...

I don't serve him but many do...yeah, he is a god...the god of this world...

"Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." Luke 4:6

Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out" John 12:31

"We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." 1 John 5:19
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom