• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Turning against Jesus

Jek4141 said:
We evolved morality? Okay, then let me pose a question. Say you and I disagree ideologically, which we do. Say that my ideology says that I should kill you because you do not subscribe to it. Am I moral in thinking so? Is morality subjective? I mean, I evolved that moral compass, didn't I?
Click to expand...

Your ideology would be an abomination then to the collective need of our species to survive. Human morality already existed far in advance of when the concept of monotheism entered the picture.


OM
 
Jek4141 said:
Regardless, a Levite denying the existence of Adam, Eve, Noah, and Moses is astounding to me.
Click to expand...

That should tell you something then, as an authoritative source. Most of those legends and oral traditions weren't combined and reduced to writing until the Exilic period, and for a very good reason.


OM
 
RAMOSS said:
Or, the alternate explanation, which is much more likely, is that the trial as described in the Gospels is fictionalized.
Click to expand...

It has been suggested by some academics and historians that the trial as depicted in the Gospel stories was based upon an actual "trial of Jesus", however with one glaring difference... the trading of Barabbas for Jesus. It has been suggested that the historical Jesus (whoever he was) was himself Barabbas (whose formal name was Yeshua bar-Abbas). In many traditions, Jesus (Yeshua in Aramaic) was referred to as "Son of the Father". The surname bar-Abbas, in Aramaic, translates to "son of the father"; or Yeshua, Son of the Father. It has further been suggested that if these 2 literary characters are based upon the same person, then perhaps the historical Jesus might also have been some sort of freedom fighter in addition to a teacher.


OM
 
Jek4141 said:
The very existence of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil indicates the opportunity of choice, and because man chose to serve themselves rather than God (Gen. 3), sin enters the world, and through sin, death....
Click to expand...



There is no "tree of knowledge, there were no Adam and Eve - there was a gradual evolution from single cell organism
It's interesting though that the Bible has god so afraid of man getting knowledge. Something that modern religion opposes today.

Why did go create a knowledge tree?

...the use of the word "gene" is metaphorical in my above quote, meant to indicate that every human being has the sin nature embedded within them from conception....
Click to expand...


There is no "sin" gene - it's called the brain


...sin is the result of straying from God...
Click to expand...


Really, which god?

What do call sin when you commit evil in the name of god - like witch burning or the slaughter of infidels? How did those sins materialize?


...sin is the choice to self serve. Look at any recent news article on mass shootings or terrorism, or scan histories many and bloody wars, for all the evidence you need of the gene's existence...
Click to expand...

Martin Luther said man in naturally sinful and all men sin regardless of their closeness to god - even the Pope sins.

...as for the AIDS virus, just because a disease has not been diagnosed up to a point does not mean it did not exist....
Click to expand...

So AIDS existed from the dawn of time but people only started getting it in the 1980s?

AIDS is proof of mutation

...the Native Americans infected exploring Europeans with syphilis without their knowledge during the age of exploration. As for AIDS reason, the answer is self obvious: as a sexually transmitted disease, it can be seen as punishment for sexual impurity.
Click to expand...

So what about the Native Americans Like Africans and Europeans, they were protected by geography until Europeans started to explore the globe.

How is AIDS a punishment? You're saying it was created after the creation for use only in the 1980s?

Was smallpox a punishment?

Explain how River Blindness worms couldn't enter human feet but after the expulsion from Eden, they magically could.


Is no-one who ever contracted a disease able to go to heaven?
 
Jek4141 said:
Another popular question. Why are other religions invalid?

Ravi Zacharias does a far better job explaining this with me, so I'd recommend you watch some of his speeches for greater detail, but I'll lay out his basic points. According to Ravi, every religion or worldview is burdened by its ability to answer four questions: origin, meaning, morality, and destiny. Each of these must further be supported by three tests: logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and experiential relevance. No matter how close some other religions may get, Christianity is the only one to effectively answer all four of these questions with all three of the tests of truth.
Click to expand...

LOL! No, Christianity isn't even remotely the only one to answer all four with all threre 'tests of truth'.

Who sold you that particular line of ahistorical bull****?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
LOL! No, Christianity isn't even remotely the only one to answer all four with all threre 'tests of truth'.

Who sold you that particular line of ahistorical bull****?
Click to expand...

This charlatan.

Ravi Zacharias holds the Christian worldview because he believes it is unique for answering the following questions sought by man: that of origin, meaning of life, morality, and destiny. Zacharias holds that there must be a Creator and all morality comes from him. He uses such logic as: if there is a moral law, then there is a law giver. He has made claims such as "naturalists have no explanation for humanity's moral framework."

Zacharias does not accept the theory of evolution. He believes that it is incompatible with the second law of thermodynamics, and he expresses skepticism of the fossil record. As well as being a scientific ignoramus, Ravi has often taken to breaking the 9th Commandment in order to discredit his opponents. Tragically he flew under the radar of potholer54 and was never nominated for a coveted Golden Crocoduck award. He is also guilty of being oblivious to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Whether he enjoys pretending to be an expert on subjects outside of theology is not known. It is also not known if Ravi deliberately realizes he is misrepresenting new atheism, science, and human sexuality, or if he hasn't learned the arduous complicated task of doing a Google search. In his seminars, Ravi is a huge fan of using anecdotal evidence, to the point that he mysteriously forgets to use any other evidence. His incredible talent for quote mining has also left the mining industry baffled as to how one can dig so deep when fueled by the desire to dig up out of context diamonds. In November 2009, Zacharias signed an ecumenical statement known as the Manhattan Declaration calling on Evangelicals, Catholics and Orthodox to engage in civil disobedience with regard to laws which the declaration claims would force them to accept abortion, same-sex marriage or other matters that go against their religious consciences. His followers are still waiting for the moment when he will tie himself to a christian flagpole to protest gay marriage. [1] [2]

Ravi Zacharias - RationalWiki
 
Tanngrisnir said:
LOL! No, Christianity isn't even remotely the only one to answer all four with all threre 'tests of truth'.

Who sold you that particular line of ahistorical bull****?
Click to expand...

Indeed the Muslim religion's claim is hat it is the last religion and that Mohammed is the last prophet.


They claim to answer all of man's "big questions".
 
Jek4141 said:
I don't care if you subscribe to atheism or some other religion, you cannot deny the historically documented account of Jesus's arrest, trial, and death. We can debate over the resurrection, but the first three are concrete. Denying those is denying the so-called 'logical' part of the story.
Click to expand...

Atheism is not a religion.
 
Pastafarianism is a valid religion for some.
 
RAMOSS said:
And another related note, theism is not a religion.
Click to expand...

There are so many denominations now - can you actually say Christianity is a religion or a broad umbrella that describes a large group of religions?
 
Rich2018 said:
Does anyone pray for Trump ?

Would he know if those prayers were heard ?
Click to expand...

As far as the proper authorities are concerned, we pray for being able to carry on in our ministry and in our worship to God...

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness." 1 Timothy 2:1,2
 
Elvira said:
As far as the proper authorities are concerned, we pray for being able to carry on in our ministry and in our worship to God...

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness." 1 Timothy 2:1,2
Click to expand...

Does a calm and quiet life including disturbing people by knocking on their doors uninvited to preach to them?
 
COTO said:
The OP suggests Christ would rebuke Christians (indeed, the whole world) for taking a pro-life stance, enforcing national borders, and failing to recognize Pres. Trump as (I'm assuming) the antichrist.

The Bible is crystal clear on the matter of personhood in the womb ("breath of life" apologetics notwithstanding) and on the importance of enforcing national borders (as well as upholding the law and obeying the law). Pres. Trump doesn't resemble the antichrist in numerous respects that are impossible to mistake. The signs and events prophesied to accompany the antichrist haven't accompanied Pres. Trump.

Most importantly, Christ wouldn't ignore the gospel of John (and, apparently, the entire Bible save for the synoptic gospels). Every part of the Bible is critical to its proper interpretation. If we ignore verses or even entire books because we can't reconcile them with our personal understanding of scripture, we can heap up for ourselves all kinds of false doctrines. "But [Jesus] answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4, AKJV) Note "every word" and not "the synoptic gospels and forget the rest".
Click to expand...

He also rebuked his own followers for honestly enforcing Biblical law as they understood it and judging those who sinned according to the Bible without even noticing how much worse they themselves were sinning in doing so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom