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Being "Saved": Belief vs Deeds

calamity

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Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?
 
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Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

Simple...it doesn't...and once saved, always saved is not true, either...
 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

The Bible says one must do four things to get to heaven.

Baptism, Eucharist, faith, and doing the will of the father.

Most Protestants and quasi Christian sects reject three of these. The oldest Christians, Catholics like myself and the Orthodox teach the full truth.

It would be a mockery of god to live your life opposed to his will and claim that merely because you believed some abstraction you should be saved
 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

I think in your reading you must have missed the part about the Second Thief.

 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

It is all argumentative as it is all applied ideology.

Even narrowing this down to just Christianity, all the splinters of that faith have varying standards on what is means to be "saved" in terms of scripture. Even looking across all the yearbook scripture passages used to suggest what salvation is (and that is slightly different than being "saved") you end up with a wide range of interpretation room on what it really takes.

In theory (as you suggest,) some who claim religious authority may offer that at the final moment one can be saved. Others would probably vehemently disagree suggesting they know what that same scripture really means.

Ultimately you end up with a very sad truth, the void of what it means to be saved, or achieve salvation, is filled by people to make that determination. That all come with their own agendas, ideologies, interpretations, limitations, corruptions, you name it.

That is one of many reasons as to why religion is extremely dangerous, it allows a means for people who do not have all the answers to assume they can refer to a book filled with bronze age myths to think that they do. The belief on what it takes to get saved ends up with wide ranging interpretations on that line of being saved and being on the outside looking in.
 
I think in your reading you must have missed the part about the Second Thief.



Uh...a music video? Really?

I guess that beats actually making an argument.
 
More than belief in Jesus is required

Belief must be accompanied by works. Jas 2:17-26; 1:22-25

Must obey commands, do work he did. Joh 14:12, 15; 1Jo 2:3

Not all using name of Lord will enter Kingdom. Mt 7:21-23

“Once saved, always saved” is not Scriptural

Partakers of holy spirit can fall. Heb 6:4, 6; 1Co 9:27

Many Israelites destroyed though saved from Egypt. Jude 5

Salvation is not instantaneous. Php 2:12; 3:12-14; Mt 10:22

Those turning back are worse off than before. 2Pe 2:20, 21

Bible Topics for Discussion — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

Christianity is based in the belief that it is possible to keep people from being assholes, if you ignore them and treat them kindly when you can’t, and teach them to be better people when you can.

We try, we fail, but we keep trying.
 
Christianity is based in the belief that it is possible to keep people from being assholes, if you ignore them and treat them kindly when you can’t, and teach them to be better people when you can.

We try, we fail, but we keep trying.

I would say this is exactly what Christianity should be. But, unfortunately, many Christians practice the opposite. Shame that is too. But, the ones who truly get it...they are alright in my book.
 
Uh...a music video? Really?

I guess that beats actually making an argument.

Uh, my argument is the Second Thief. :3oops:

And because you apparently didn’t listen to the hymn, I’lltype the relevant verse: "The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in hisday,/And there may I go, vile as he [to] wash all my sins away."

Here are the full lyrics, written in 1772 by William Cowper(pronounced “Cooper”): There Is a Fountain > Lyrics | William Cowper
 
Uh, my argument is the Second Thief. :3oops:

And because you apparently didn’t listen to the hymn, I’lltype the relevant verse: "The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in hisday,/And there may I go, vile as he [to] wash all my sins away."

Here are the full lyrics, written in 1772 by William Cowper(pronounced “Cooper”): There Is a Fountain > Lyrics | William Cowper

It probably would have done more good and made much more sense had you posted this.

Neither of the two criminals crucified on either side of Jesus had any 'good works' to their credit. Neither had a great deal of knowledge about Jesus. But to one of them Jesus promised: 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'

What made the difference?

This second thief knew two things: he knew who he was, and he knew who Jesus was....

The Second Thief

Just saying.
 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

Christianity is idolatry , strange how it claims to be derived from Judaism, saved lol

YouTube
 
It probably would have done more good and made much more sense had you posted this.



Just saying.

You have to have some familiarity.
 
Jesus promised: 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'

It probably would have done more good and made much more sense had you posted this.



Just saying.

Actually, he was not with Jesus in paradise on that very day...we know that for a fact because Jesus did not die and immediately go to paradise...it should read...

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Luke 23:43
Truly I tell you today,: The form of Greek script used in the earliest available manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures is composed solely of capital letters. It did not contain spaces or punctuation as used in modern languages. Although some scribes did occasionally add some marks in the text that may have been for punctuation, such marks were not used often or consistently. Therefore, the punctuation in modern Bible translations is based on the grammar of the Greek text and the context of the verse. In this verse, the grammar of the Greek text allows for placing a comma (or a colon) either before or after the word “today.” However, the punctuation shown in renderings of Jesus’ statement depends on how translators understand the sense of what Jesus said and on what the Bible as a whole teaches. Scholarly editions of the Greek text like the ones prepared by Westcott and Hort, Nestle and Aland, and the United Bible Societies put a comma before the Greek word rendered “today.” However, placing the comma after “today” harmonizes with earlier statements that Jesus made and with teachings found elsewhere in the Scriptures. For example, Jesus said that he would die and be “in the heart of the earth”​—the grave—​until the third day. (Mt 12:40; Mr 10:34) On more than one occasion, he told his disciples that he would be killed and raised on the third day. (Lu 9:22; 18:33) Also, the Bible states that Jesus was resurrected as “the firstfruits of those who [had] fallen asleep in death” and that he ascended to heaven 40 days later. (1Co 15:20; Joh 20:17; Ac 1:1-3, 9; Col 1:18) Jesus was resurrected, not on the day that he died, but on the third day after his death, so it is evident that the criminal could not be with Jesus in Paradise on the same day that Jesus spoke to him.

In harmony with this reasoning, a fifth-century C.E. Syriac version of Luke’s account, known as the Curetonian Syriac, renders this text: “Amen, I say to thee to-day that with me thou shalt be in the Garden of Eden.” (F. C. Burkitt, The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, Vol. 1, Cambridge, 1904) It is also worth noting that both early and later Greek writers and commentators indicated that there were disagreements regarding how to render these words. For example, Hesychius of Jerusalem, who lived in the fourth and fifth centuries C.E., wrote regarding Lu 23:43: “Some indeed read in this manner: ‘Truly I tell you today,’ and put a comma; then they follow: ‘You will be with me in Paradise.’” (Greek text found in Patrologiae Graecae, Vol. 93, col. 1432-1433.) Theophylact, who lived in the 11th and 12th centuries C.E., wrote about some who argued for “putting a punctuation mark after ‘today,’ so that it would be said this way: ‘Truly I tell you today’; and then they follow with the expression: ‘You will be with me in Paradise.’” (Patrologiae Graecae, Vol. 123, col. 1104.) G. M. Lamsa, in the publication Gospel Light​—Comments on the Teachings of Jesus From Aramaic and Unchanged Eastern Customs, pp. 303-304, says about the use of “today” at Lu 23:43: “The emphasis in this text is on the word ‘today’ and should read, ‘Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.’ The promise was made on that day and it was to be fulfilled later. This is a characteristic of Oriental speech implying that the promise was made on a certain day and would surely be kept.” Therefore, the Greek phrase at Lu 23:43 may reflect a Semitic way of expressing emphasis. The Hebrew Scriptures provide numerous examples of the idiomatic usage of “today” in solemn expressions, such as promises and commands. (De 4:26; 6:6; 7:11; 8:1, 19; 30:15; Zec 9:12) The evidence presented above suggests that Jesus used the word “today” to call attention, not to the time of the criminal’s being in Paradise, but to the time at which the promise was being made.

A number of translations, such as those in English by Rotherham and by Lamsa (1933 edition) and those in German by L. Reinhardt and by W. Michaelis, recognize that the emphasis is correctly placed on the time that the promise is being made rather than on the time that it is being fulfilled. Those translations render the text in a form similar to the reading of the New World Translation.

Luke 23 — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Actually, he was not with Jesus in paradise on that very day...we know that for a fact because Jesus did not die and immediately go to paradise...it should read...

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”



Luke 23 — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

My secular take is rather simple. "Reflect on what you did wrong, come to terms with your punishment and you will find peace."

The second thief did as advised and found peace. The first did not, and suffered in agony because of it.

Now, that's redemption which fits well with reality.
 
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Christianity is idolatry , strange how it claims to be derived from Judaism, saved lol

YouTube

Yes, a clear violation of the First. lol @ the Trinity diversion too. It's like, "OK, we can't worship a man, but if we say..."
 
My secular take is rather simple. "Reflect on what you did wrong, come to terms with your punishment and you will find peace."

The second thief did as advised and found peace. The first did not, and suffered in agony because of it.

Now, that's redemption which fits well with reality.

I agree with that...the wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23...he paid his due...his words indicate that he knew something about Jesus and that knowledge likely contributed to a wholesome change in his attitude which was evident by his words, “Remember me when you get into your kingdom”...
 
I agree with that...the wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23...he paid his due...his words indicate that he knew something about Jesus and that knowledge likely contributed to a wholesome change in his attitude which was evident by his words, “Remember me when you get into your kingdom”...

Lessons of forgiveness and redemption are what "finding" Jesus is all about. Unfortunately, too many people think it's about something completely different.
 
It probably would have done more good and made much more sense had you posted this.

Just saying.

No, "Second Thief" was enough. It's not exactly an obscure reference. Interesting how you have such very strong opinions when you know so very little.
 
No, "Second Thief" was enough. It's not exactly an obscure reference. Interesting how you have such very strong opinions when you know so very little.

Sorry, but Willie Nelson and Jesus are just not connected in my brain.
 
Ok, here's the one that really blows my mind. Apparently a large number of Christians are under the impression that all it takes to get saved is to believe in the Jesus man. Deeds matter not at all.

So, in theory, someone can be a ****stain their whole life. But, as long as they come to Jesus at the end, all will be well. And, they land their special spot in heaven.

Now, my reading of the Bible says that's all bull****. It takes a wee bit more than lip servicing the Jesus man to get that ride up to the Promiseland. Mostly, what it takes is to be the opposite of those lip-service Christians.

Of course, then I turned 13, and realized it was all bull**** anyway. But, I digress. Point here is what the ****? How can just believing something, especially something stupid, grant you a free ride to anywhere, even if that somewhere is an imaginary cloud where the bearded sky daddy holds court?

It's all right, 'cause I was saved by the bell...
 
This isn't that kind of thread or sub-forum. Theocracy is that way --->

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you're doing theology.
 
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