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Was the fall of man necessary

I used to think life was god, but now not so much. Life is just information stored to memory. Humans only have a more complex hard drive than the earthworm.
 
Fletch said:
No, prior to eating the fruit, Adam had no ability to make a moral choice of any kind
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That remains true to this day because that was the way we were created, to depend on our Creator for guidance, not to lean upon our own understanding...to be independent of God was never His purpose for man...

"I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Jeremiah 10:23

"Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, And do not rely on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5

Just look at the mess this world is in because Adam chose that course for him and his offspring...

Fletch said:
Adam was confronted with a choice, follow the directions of God or listen to the snake. The problem was, Adam was unprepared to make such a choice. From our perspective, Adams choice was between good and evil. From Adams perspective, it was listen to this guy or that guy. There was no way for him to make the moral choice--chose to obey the word of God--because he lacked a knowledge of good and evil
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You talk as if Adam did not know Jehovah...He did, they were so intimately close, God talked directly to him...we have no idea how long after Adam's creation that he sinned...it could have been years, decades or longer, so Adam had time to get to know Jehovah and to trust him, so much so, that when he sinned, he wanted to run and hide because he was ashamed of what he had done...

Adam did have a choice, to obey the one being who had given him everything he needed to be happy, including life, or to disobey Him and listen to a stranger...like a fool, he chose the latter...
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Everything has a cycle of birth, growth, maturity, decay, and death. The universe is no exception. Love can't help with that.
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That cycle pretty much always carries energy and materials across thresholds. The molecules in my body were once dead, will be again, and then alive again.
 
ecofarm said:
That cycle pretty much always carries energy and materials across thresholds. The molecules in my body were once dead, will be again, and then alive again.
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And jam-packed with love!
 
ecofarm said:
That cycle pretty much always carries energy and materials across thresholds. The molecules in my body were once dead, will be again, and then alive again.
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Are you referring to thermodynamics?


OM
 
Omega Man said:
Are you referring to thermodynamics?


OM
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Sure. I'm referring to everything. To all matter and energy transfer and conversion. To all things that were, then not and are again.
 
There really is nothing out that to suggest the presence of a god that gives a damn. Objectively speaking, it seems the opposite is true: there might be something out there that has a sick sense of humor.

"Hey, let's create a world where everything eats each other. And, then through this glutton called man in the mix and watch him eat himself to death."

Fun times.
 
Simpletruther said:
A mathematical theorem exists that says whatever can happen, Given enough time, will happen.

This not only can be shown mathematically, it seems intuitive logically.

The non calvinists say that Adam’s sin was not necessary. That he could have (done otherwise).

Assuming this non calvinist view is true, logic tells us that the fall was still necessary and basically determined to happen any way(eventually) .
Adam was compelled to sin (eventually) by his nature of being able to. It was absolutely baked into the cake from the beginning, mathematically and logically.

So this idea fails to really resolve a big difficulty that some non calvinists have (that God determines evil) with Calvinism Because this still ends up being the case simply by the nature of how he created Adam, (capable of sin).

THoughts?
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Yes, it's necessary. It actually follows the mathematical bell shape normal distribution of humans in terms of how law is abide by. Law is used to make a cut on the angel population for them to divide into the saved and the unsaved. The same law when applies to humans the bell shape completely falls off, that is 100% will be deemed as unsaved. That's why Jesus is needed for a series of covenants to be granted such that humans can divide into the saved and unsaved too.

That's how a heaven is to be built. Adam's fall shows that humans and angels cannot directly be brought to the eternal heaven. Some of them will have to be removed for an eternity to work at all.
 
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