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[W:88]Atheism is a political doctrine

I was well aware that I was going to cause argument. If I can get atheists to claim, "confusion," I will be impressed.

As you are well aware this is a recurring topic in atheist circles.
I am very confident that I have the correct definition, and I believe that a discussion dedicated to it is the best approach to use the discussions as evidence of dogma that adversely affects atheists reasoning, and ultimately, the campaign for the approach to world peace.

You do agree that a world of reasonable atheists is more inclined to be peaceful compared to a mix of religious people - right???


The quotation above, from the other thread, clearly indicates that you are aware that the established definition is in dispute.

I do not want to discuss the generation of a word to describe a political doctrine that atheists use to organize opposition to theist doctrine as the basis of public policy - that is what atheists organizations ultimately do. Atheists organizations do not exist to inform the public that atheism is the non-belief in gods. Atheist organizations form on the basis that they are going to protect atheists from theists in the political realm of society. Theists do not need atheists to explain to them what atheism is.

Well at least atheists ain't burning Christians at the stake.

Can we get our own Inquisition? I mean, if we're all anti-theists...I mean atheists (as we're pretending those to be the same), I think we should get our own Inquisition.
 
Can we get our own Inquisition? I mean, if we're all anti-theists...I mean atheists (as we're pretending those to be the same), I think we should get our own Inquisition.
I am pretty sure the only inquisition atheists are going to exercise is the one upon my burden to prove that atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine for the basis of public policy.
 
I am pretty sure the only inquisition atheists are going to exercise is the one upon my burden to prove that atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine for the basis of public policy.

Damn...and here I was greasing the gears on the Rack here, getting it ready.
 
"Amazing every word of what you just said... was wrong" (Relevant movie quote.)
If that were true, you would not bother with the rest of the drivel you, so well, composed.

Not sure where you are getting your terms but Ontology is just the study of being.
It is such a minor aspect of Western Philosophy - why bother with it??? It only leads to the organization of human knowledge classification systems that are not used as references in the editing of dictionaries, because the linguists and lawyers have not established a stable system, because the guardians of Philosophy do not want to explain that it is needed for dialectics in the post-modern world of sophistication.

The generation and use of knowledge classification system would be kind of like modern computer languages and the encountering of a syntax error - reasoning error.

Theism and Atheism are words with actual meanings unchanged back to their Greek origins, and are simply theos or atheos meaning God or without God.
Thank you for the general etymology description. There is a recurring dispute concerning the definition as I proved in the previous reply to HonestJoe. Atheism is a political doctrine

No branch of philosophy took those terms and made them into something else, especially your asinine idea of including Theism / theos in Ontology and excluding Atheism / atheos.
It is not asinine - it is truly brilliant critical analysis and dissemination of the correct information - science. you are immersed in dogma, and refuse to accept that the previous generations of people did not have the need for a more accurate definitions, because the state of reasoning was generally corrupted by theist dogma - as most atheists would agree.

The only place you were sorta close is where you aligned Humanism, but you still got it very wrong in position against Theism and Atheism.

Humanism is a philosophical stance suggesting value and agency (as in individual or collective) of human beings in defining reality from critical thinking and evidence based conclusions to philosophical questions asked in a manner as to dismiss dogma and superstition.
:lamo That's word salad for, "humanism is an ontological doctrine."

You do not understand Ontology.
 
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Humanism was not an answer directly to being Atheist, but in effect the answers from the Humanism branch of Philosophy are Atheist just as much as they reject predestination, karma, kismet, whatever else. Humanism was not about targeting the Theism or Atheism debate specifically, but rather asking the right questions as a means to dismiss all things humanity tends to make up in order to explain something. It leans system of science.
:lamo That is a good description of the process of generating an ontological list - knowledge classification system. Knowledge organization - Wikipedia

Ultimately for just about all schools of thought from Philosophy there is still reason to keep the relation of Theism to Atheism given the nature of what those questions tends to lead to.
Wrong. The problem with the semantic relationship that you want to maintain is that it provides for the magical qualities of "belief," rather than the necessity for indoctrination that atheists would rather for their reasoning contesting theism.

Theists would prefer the magical quality of belief in a supernatural dimension of reality, because that is what they want. They want people to believe in god, because it generates magical abilities to think outside the box.

And there is just as much reason to keep the relation of systems of process (sciences) that humanism draws conclusions from as adversarial to systems of belief (religion) as in organized to draw conclusions from based on interpretation from text, spirituality, what have you.
Right - you are going to generate a "scientific" classification system to contest the theists' inadequate and unreliable system(s) that have been proven to be unreliable by the introduction of reliable evidence from "science."

This line of thinking has even made its way into some areas of Physics, Quantum Physics, and Theoretical Mathematics because of the ideas of place, time, etc.

But at no time was Atheism severed from the relation and made into an exclusive political doctrine removed from what Ontology is trying to suggest. Atheism still has a place in all areas of Philosophy talking about these questions and subjects of what defines reality. Human to supernatural does not change that, nor does it change the meaning of these words. If we have gained any new understandings from these questions it means having a concrete base to ask the right questions from.

The real compromised definitions here are of your own doing.
I am pretty sure I am asking the right questions - do we need a reliable knowledge classification system? Yes, the Dewey Decimal and Library of Congress classification systems are not derived from scientific methods, and are not reliable for understanding the demarcation of technology, especially in the areas from social organization to culture.
 
You're confusing atheism with secularism.
No. Secularism is the unbiased (government, social) systems.

Atheism is a bias against theist doctrine as the basis for public policy.

Secularism does not care if theist doctrine is deployed in public policy. It appears to be without theist doctrine, because it tends to be very bland in order to accommodate the multiple religious demographics (pluralism) and non-religious constituents.
 
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I don't know what dictionary you are getting your definition of atheism from. I get mine from the original meaning of the world. Atheism comes from the Greek a (without) - theos (Gods) and literally means people without the belief in Gods.
Well, you see, I'm arguing there is an error in the dictionary definitions - you couldn't figure that out??? I clearly stated it with large bold letters!!!
There is a major error in the popular definition of "atheism," because of various reasons of convenience, compliance, and lack of reliable knowledge classification, in the past.​
And then, I provide a reasoning list:
To get it straight, you have to go over the three terms that are being compared. You you have to understand what theism and humanism are, and why atheism is not in the same classification category:

  • Theism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that a supernatural deity orders/defines reality.
  • Humanism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that humans order/define reality.
  • Atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine as the basis for public policy, because it is absurd to designate an ontology as the antithesis of a designated ontology; which is what you are doing when you suggest that atheism has something to do with determining what exists - (lack of) belief in the existence of a supernatural dimension of reality - gods.

And then, I challenge you to the death by explaining, again, that the dictionaries have been compromised by Christians who are not reliable when it comes to describing what exists and what does not exist in reality:

My argument is valid and sound. Your counter-arguments are based on dogma - compromised definitions from bygone eras of sophistication dominated by Christian dictionary editors unwittingly appeasing the Christian world.

Smarten-up - Stay Woke​
 
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Completely incorrect. Atheism means simply lacking a belief in any gods. Nothing more, nothing less and there is zero political aspect to it. You're making up things because you have an agenda. Words have meanings, you don't get to arbitrarily change them.
I am not changing the definitions of words randomly. I recognized the error, because of its adverse effects on atheists ability to reason. I am correcting the error by providing the more appropriate definition. It is not my fault that you have been indoctrinated into believing that the dictionary editors are something they are not - there is no rigorous governing body.

It would behoove atheists to establish a governing body for editing the definitions of words - it is a necessary tool for the exercise and review of reasoned arguments.

I recognized an unreliable system of definitions that are adversely effecting atheist/humanists.
 
Though atheism has a few proselytizers such as Dawkins and Hitchens, it's really not even an ideology, much less a political belief. Even in the so-called unreligious dictatorships of the 20th Century (Soviet Union, Mao's China), the cult of personality replaced a state religion. It was never a cause in itself and in that respect these countries never went without belief in something.

But Atheism by definition is the very absence of belief. If one never had a belief instilled in them that would be their default state. 'Nothing' cannot be a 'doctrine'.
That is an incorrect definition. You cannot have an absence of belief, and assign it a designation with respect to belief - it does not make sense, except if you are under the influence of "instilled beliefs" that it does make sense - dogma.

Secularism is the default quality that you so eloquently fail to understand in your glossary of terms significant to the discussions concerning the description of "atheism."

The problem with the semantic relationship that you want to maintain is that it provides for the magical qualities of "belief," rather than the necessity for indoctrination that atheists would rather for their reasoning contesting theism.

Theists would prefer the magical quality of belief in a supernatural dimension of reality, because that is what they want. They want people to believe in god, because it generates magical abilities to think outside the box.
 
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You do not put forward an argument, merely pretentious twaddle, cloaked in pseudo-learning and absurd definitions.
I composed the most eloquent reasoned arguments, and I am to be commended for leading atheists beyond their pretentious twaddling, pseudo-learning, and absurd definitions.

It is a recurring topic in atheist circles - make no mistake about it. The reason is, because there is a problem with the common definition - it does not make sense when compared to aspects of ontology that atheists are assigning it when they describe it as a "non-belief."

The problem with the semantic relationship that you want to maintain is that it provides for the magical qualities of "belief," rather than the necessity for indoctrination that atheists would rather for their reasoning contesting theism.

Theists would prefer the magical quality of belief in a supernatural dimension of reality, because that is what they want. They want people to believe in god, because it generates magical abilities to think outside the box.
 
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Completely incorrect. Atheism means simply lacking a belief in any gods. Nothing more, nothing less and there is zero political aspect to it. You're making up things because you have an agenda.
In 2001, I recognized that there was a problem in society concerning reasoning; and I decided that I was going to figure out what the problem is and then try to fix the problem.

Have you an easier fix to the social problems of the world than mine? I say we need to have a constitutional convention and go over a few social issues, and generate practical solutions:

  • racial stratification
  • religious stratification
  • separation of government responsibilities
  • electoral systems
  • knowledge classification

Can you describe your agenda, as well, as I can describe mine?

Where are you at when it comes to recognizing that the government is ****ed-up, and that it has an adverse trickle down effect on society???
 
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I am not changing the definitions of words randomly. I recognized the error, because of its adverse effects on atheists ability to reason. I am correcting the error by providing the more appropriate definition. It is not my fault that you have been indoctrinated into believing that the dictionary editors are something they are not - there is no rigorous governing body.

It would behoove atheists to establish a governing body for editing the definitions of words - it is a necessary tool for the exercise and review of reasoned arguments.

I recognized an unreliable system of definitions that are adversely effecting atheist/humanists.

Yet , you are changing them for an agenda. As such, the communication lines break down, and make your thesis invalid.
 
Yet , you are changing them for an agenda. As such, the communication lines break down, and make your thesis invalid.
Either, atheists adjust their analysis to the corrections that I am proposing, or consider the consequences of Christians recognizing the sound reasoning and imposing the corrections.

Failing to do as I advise atheists to do will incline the Christians to use the situation against atheists when atheists argue that they do not harbor dogma.

Christians know there is a problem with the definitions, that is another reason why atheists have discussions on the topic - it is a recurring topic as was proven in the previous response to HonestJoe.

There is a problem in atheist circles concerning the definition of atheism. It is a recurring topic of discussion at atheist discussion forums. The correction is very easy, and the proof is quite apparent - atheist organizations are commissioned to guard atheists political rights. Atheist organizations do not form for any other ultimate reason - it would be absurd to do so.



Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
 
So, this is nothing more than a thinly veiled ad hominem thread.
You are silly - that is a replicated response to the attack that was made against me.

It is obvious that I have provided plenty of well reasoned responses to the irrational disagreements and possible misunderstandings - I am not out to call atheists names.

I have an agenda to provide the means to lead to the better approach to world peace.

There is a problem with knowledge classification, and it irregularities, seem to appear in the atheists arguments concerning the description of atheism. Make no mistake about it - atheists have developed a recurring topic that does not make sense. Six months ago some brilliant atheist published a book describing "Seven Types of Atheism."

Imagine that??? I'll bet you have no problem with the drivel, so long, as it does not describe atheism to be a political doctrine, because that would be too easy of a description to understand, when clearly atheism has something to do with discounting the psychological aspects of believing in doctrines that prescribe the existence of a supernatural dimension of reality - right?

And there are people critiquing the book that it has something to offer atheists.

Have you read it?

https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Types-...es+of+atheism&qid=1558393887&s=gateway&sr=8-1
 
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You are silly - that is a replicated response to the attack that was made against me.

Nonsense. Your own quote provided the evidence for my response and the rest of your post was immaterial to my point.

Could you not understand that the attacks in your post were considered highly biased?
 
Well, you see, I'm arguing there is an error in the dictionary definitions - you couldn't figure that out??? I clearly stated it with large bold letters!!!
And then, I provide a reasoning list:

And then, I challenge you to the death by explaining, again, that the dictionaries have been compromised by Christians who are not reliable when it comes to describing what exists and what does not exist in reality:

So if there is an error in the dictionary, why didn't you just go straight to the original meaning of the word?
 
There is a major error in the popular definition of "atheism," because of various reasons of convenience, compliance, and lack of reliable knowledge classification, in the past.​

Are we to take this assertion as wrote without supporting evidence?

To get it straight, you have to go over the three terms that are being compared. You you have to understand what theism and humanism are, and why atheism is not in the same classification category:

  • Theism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that a supernatural deity orders/defines reality.
  • Humanism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that humans order/define reality.
  • Atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine as the basis for public policy, because it is absurd to designate an ontology as the antithesis of a designated ontology; which is what you are doing when you suggest that atheism has something to do with determining what exists - (lack of) belief in the existence of a supernatural dimension of reality - gods.

More assertions without supporting evidence.

My argument is valid and sound.

How so? You've demonstrated nothing.

Your counter-arguments are based on dogma - compromised definitions from bygone eras of sophistication dominated by Christian dictionary editors unwittingly appeasing the Christian world.

That adequately poisons the well for any counter responses.

Smarten-up - Stay Woke​

Stay woke? Should it not be 'stay awake'?
 
There is a major error in the popular definition of "atheism," because of various reasons of convenience, compliance, and lack of reliable knowledge classification, in the past.​

To get it straight, you have to go over the three terms that are being compared. You you have to understand what theism and humanism are, and why atheism is not in the same classification category:

  • Theism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that a supernatural deity orders/defines reality.
  • Humanism is the ontological doctrine that suggests that humans order/define reality.
  • Atheism is a political doctrine that opposes theist doctrine as the basis for public policy, because it is absurd to designate an ontology as the antithesis of a designated ontology; which is what you are doing when you suggest that atheism has something to do with determining what exists - (lack of) belief in the existence of a supernatural dimension of reality - gods.

My argument is valid and sound. Your counter-arguments are based on dogma - compromised definitions from bygone eras of sophistication dominated by Christian dictionary editors unwittingly appeasing the Christian world.

Smarten-up - Stay Woke​

You are incorrect
 
Let's re-evaluate the definitions in the OP:

1. Theism: 'belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.'

2. Humanism: 'is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.'

3. Atheism: 'disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.'

Some Theists are politically active in furthering their agenda, so does that make Theism a political doctrine? No. Some Humanists are politically active in furthering their agenda, so does that make Humanism a political doctrine? No.

So how does atheism become a political doctrine? Is it because some are politically active such as the FFRF? Atheism doesn't determine what exists, it simply rejects the assertion that gods exist owing to a dearth of supporting evidence. If some choose to state categorically that there are no god or gods, then some aren't all that gifted in logic.
 
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I was well aware that I was going to cause argument. If I can get atheists to claim, "confusion," I will be impressed.
You intended to cause argument, distinct from respectful discussion? And the confusion isn’t about “atheists”, it’s about anyone. You present your definitive and largely negative definition of atheism, anyone who identifies (or is identified as) atheist is automatically tarred with that negativity. You’re trying to slander millions of people and that is dangerous. It’s historically the first step on that path to genocide.

As you are well aware this is a recurring topic in atheist circles.
Not “atheist circles”, just circles. I doubt there are many exclusively “atheist circles” and I’ve certainly no interest in going around in circles with them. We’re a whole mixture of different people discussing different things here. There is no restriction based on our individual beliefs and worldviews (individually plural by the way) and in this kind of context, they should be largely irrelevant. The definitions of words have nothing to do with what you personally believe (or want to believe).

I am very confident that I have the correct definition
As much as there can be a “correct” definition for any word, it is how that word is commonly used. That’s why the meanings of words shift over time and place. You’re specifically challenging the commonly used definition(s) of the word “atheism” for your very specific and socio-politically motivated one. That isn’t how semantics work, otherwise we could all make up our own meanings for words and the whole thing becomes fishing-boat green aardvark. :cool:

You do agree that a world of reasonable atheists is more inclined to be peaceful compared to a mix of religious people - right???
That depends on how reasonable the religious people are. The reasonableness of people is the only defined factor here. Atheist, theism or religion doesn’t automatically determine anything.

Atheist organizations…
This is the core of the issue and an all too common error. Atheist organisations don’t represent all atheists (even most atheists) and they don’t define atheism by their actions just as theist organisations don’t represent all theists and don’t define theism by their actions. Again, it is fundamentally wrong to stick a label on millions of people and then define them all on the action of a tiny sub-set of that group. A definition of atheism should not define a person, it should define a concept and it should only be attributed to people who actually fit that defined concept. And if lots of people are consistently given that label but they don’t fit your defined concept, your definition that should be reconsidered.
 
There are no "atheist circles".
 
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