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Society based on Science

Can Society be Organized using Science

  • yes

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • no

    Votes: 7 41.2%

  • Total voters
    17
That's nonsense. Your ad hominem against Berlinski instead of focusing on his adept conclusions was a clear case of amateur hour.

Let's see you show his 'conclusions' are 'adept'. Can you discuss it, and back up your claims with valid scientific sources. Nekrodev is correct in saying that the discovery insittute is not a good source.

Let's see you back up your claims.
 
That's nonsense. Your ad hominem against Berlinski instead of focusing on his adept conclusions was a clear case of amateur hour.


None of his conclusions are relevant to the topic, and they're all stupid. He doesn't understand what atheism is, he doesn't understand science, and it's only worth addressing him at all to remind all other ration people how useless and awful he is.
 
I know of no critic of evolution—perhaps save the late William F. Buckley, Jr.—who is at once so eloquent and so ignorant as David Berlinski. The man has spent years attacking evolutionary biology and defending intelligent design (ID), and is, to my knowledge, the only living creationist who is not religious. (He claims to be an agnostic, though I have trouble believing that.) He’s also a Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute, a position reserved for only the Highest Poo-Bahs of Ignorance.

David Berlinski makes an ass of himself defending intelligent design << Why Evolution Is True
 
None of his conclusions are relevant to the topic, and they're all stupid. He doesn't understand what atheism is, he doesn't understand science, and it's only worth addressing him at all to remind all other ration people how useless and awful he is.

Sorry, you're not believable.
 
Sorry, you're not believable.

I do not see the evidence that you have enough knowledge about science in general to be able to make that determination. In fact, I do see evidence that your bias corrupts your discernment.
 
Define "society organized by science"

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The fruits of science are most certainly used in the organization of society, but otherwise, this is a nonsensical question. Science is a methodology for investigating reality, not for organizing anything.
Well, what I am referring to is the use of technology that is derived from scientific research and analysis. in the instance of organizing society, I think the technology is referred to as, "game theory."

The construction of a practical game theory is probably going to be referred to as, "social engineering."

And it probably all comes down to realizing that it will involve charter fomatting - formulated organization of lists.
 
Well, what I am referring to is the use of technology that is derived from scientific research and analysis. in the instance of organizing society, I think the technology is referred to as, "game theory."

The construction of a practical game theory is probably going to be referred to as, "social engineering."

And it probably all comes down to realizing that it will involve charter fomatting - formulated organization of lists.

Look up the meaning of the word "technology".
 
I do not see the evidence that you have enough knowledge about science in general to be able to make that determination. In fact, I do see evidence that your bias corrupts your discernment.

There's a lot of things you don't see, Ramoss, and a lot of that is because of your bizarre biases and failure to properly study and interpret scripture.

As for science, tell me - what came first in the first living cell - the cell walls or the protoplasm, etc., inside?
 
Let's see you show his 'conclusions' are 'adept'. Can you discuss it, and back up your claims with valid scientific sources. Nekrodev is correct in saying that the discovery insittute is not a good source.

Let's see you back up your claims.

Why would I spend a lot of time trying to educate someone who is lost in their own folly?
 
There's a lot of things you don't see, Ramoss, and a lot of that is because of your bizarre biases and failure to properly study and interpret scripture.

As for science, tell me - what came first in the first living cell - the cell walls or the protoplasm, etc., inside?

What you think I don't see is baseless illusions based on superstition and ignorance. I seems you are also using the diversionary tactic of changing the subject, and using the argument from ignornance. That is a dishonest piecce of argumentation, because when an answer is given, you move the goal posts.. you have in the past, and you will in the future.
 
Why would I spend a lot of time trying to educate someone who is lost in their own folly?

That woudl first mean you would have to educate yourself, an impossible task
 
I answered "No!" because politics is about telling people what you think they want to hear,
and science is about accepting and explaining how the observed data fits with a hypothesis.
I think a place governed by the rigors of science, would be a place that suppressed personal liberty, and free expression.
There has been quite a bit of Science Fiction written on the topic, I liked James Hogan voyage from Yesteryear.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Voyage-from-...-Hogan-1986-Paperback/526213?iid=372259449397
The premise is that we cannot send Humans to a remote solar system, but we can send embryos that will be raised by robots.
In the story, morals from the robotic nannies, produce unexpected results.
 
Do any of you, brilliant, independent critical thinkers, have any ideas on how society could be organized using science?
I was going to start out by satirically asking, "Do you have any ideas on how society could be organized using pickles?" since it's about as vague and open to interpretation as your question.

I can think of dozens of reasonable interpretations. To name just a few:

  • Can science define or inform the morals of a society?
  • Can science define or inform the collective goals of a society?
  • Can science proscribe the proper limits of government?
  • Can science assist in the human pursuit of effective government and governmental structure?
  • Can science assist in economic planning?
  • Can science decide an optimal system of social castes?
  • Can science supplant the role of religious morals or humanist philosophies?
  • Can science help leaders exploit human psychology for more effective governance/control of the citizenry?
  • Can science help us build better sewer systems?
  • Can science decide whether pitbulls should be banned?

Having read your subsequent posts, it seems like your intended meaning is "Can science assist in the human pursuit of effective government and governmental structure?", to which the answer is "Without a doubt, yes," as science is a powerful tool that can be applied to many ends, including logistics, for good or for evil.

How can science aid in this pursuit?

Another open-ended question with a thousand potential answers.

Jim Libsworth, based on scientific polling techniques, determines that voter engagement in his district isn't as high as he'd like it to be. Hence he researches the issue and determines--again, according to scientific literature--that people respond favourably to animals when it comes to social engagement. He subsequently makes it known that all polling stations will feature puppies (or as he calls them, "de-stressing animal companions", which is what the literature suggests he call them) on election day, and voila! a 28% increase in voter turnout. Science has helped organize society. Huzzah!

Meanwhile, over in North Korpakmanistan, Generalissimo Kim al Putin is looking to science to effectively suppress dissent in his ideal society. His researchers give him all kinds of useful, scientifically-determined info: the best techniques for tracking dissidents, the messages to put on his propaganda posters that will have the biggest impact with the citizenry, and the fact that a full 45% of all citizens will turn in a seditious neighbour in exchange for a golden retriever puppy and a year's supply of dog food. Generalissimo Kim is happy. His researchers are happy. Science has helped organize society! Huzzah again for science!

So there's your answer, assuming this is even vaguely related to what you wanted to know.
 
Can science tell us why some people believe the myth of religion?
 
That woudl first mean you would have to educate yourself, an impossible task

Educate myself into the kind of folly and drivel that you continually post? No thanks.
 
I can think of dozens of reasonable interpretations. To name just a few:

  • Can science define or inform the morals of a society?
  • Can science define or inform the collective goals of a society?
  • Can science proscribe the proper limits of government?
  • Can science assist in the human pursuit of effective government and governmental structure?
  • Can science assist in economic planning?
  • Can science decide an optimal system of social castes?
  • Can science supplant the role of religious morals or humanist philosophies?
  • Can science help leaders exploit human psychology for more effective governance/control of the citizenry?
  • Can science help us build better sewer systems?
  • Can science decide whether pitbulls should be banned?

Having read your subsequent posts, it seems like your intended meaning is "Can science assist in the human pursuit of effective government and governmental structure?", to which the answer is "Without a doubt, yes," as science is a powerful tool that can be applied to many ends, including logistics, for good or for evil.

So there's your answer, assuming this is even vaguely related to what you wanted to know.
I believe that there is a more appealing side to it then what you have described. You have provided much better comments than the others, but you still convey some amount of distrust of the possibility, and although, you do not accuse me of being a tyrannical dictator, as so many other distrustful commentators have, you cannot avoid describing such anecdotes.

How does a "scientist" who has generated a just system describe it to the populous that is so enamored with the erroneous subsisting system???
 
The premise is that we cannot send Humans to a remote solar system, but we can send embryos that will be raised by robots.
In the story, morals from the robotic nannies, produce unexpected results.
That's pretty good. I thought of that idea a few years ago, but I did not think it out to a description of the eventual culture.

I believe I have a more reasoned approach to the "programming" of the robots to indoctrinate the culture.
 
Can science tell us why some people believe the myth of religion?
Science can probably get it down to three rationalizations - it is not an infinite number. It is not like your rationalization that there are an infinite number of different opinions among atheists.

It not really like herding cats. Do you believe in the analogy comparing atheists to herding cats?
 
Science can probably get it down to three rationalizations - it is not an infinite number. It is not like your rationalization that there are an infinite number of different opinions among atheists.

It not really like herding cats. Do you believe in the analogy comparing atheists to herding cats?

What rationalization? Your reading comprehension is very poor. I was as asking if science could explain why some people need to believe in imaginary beings. Who mentioned herding cats?
 
I answered "No!" because politics is about telling people what you think they want to hear,
and science is about accepting and explaining how the observed data fits with a hypothesis.
I think a place governed by the rigors of science, would be a place that suppressed personal liberty, and free expression.
There has been quite a bit of Science Fiction written on the topic, I liked James Hogan voyage from Yesteryear.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Voyage-from-...-Hogan-1986-Paperback/526213?iid=372259449397
The premise is that we cannot send Humans to a remote solar system, but we can send embryos that will be raised by robots.
In the story, morals from the robotic nannies, produce unexpected results.

Frank Herbert wrote two books with a similar theme (The Jesus Incident and The Lazarus Effect) where the ship itself genetically modified embryos to suit to the conditions on a given planet, and then moved on to the next system after establishing a colony. The ship itself became a god.
 
I believe that there is a more appealing side to it then what you have described. You have provided much better comments than the others, but you still convey some amount of distrust of the possibility, and although, you do not accuse me of being a tyrannical dictator, as so many other distrustful commentators have, you cannot avoid describing such anecdotes.

How does a "scientist" who has generated a just system describe it to the populous that is so enamored with the erroneous subsisting system???
"populace"

I would start by choosing the proper medium and venue. For describing an entirely new system of government, the only fitting media would be a university thesis, a book, a manuscript, or at the very least a lengthy whitepaper. The reason being that the document would have to establish to the satisfaction of the learned reader that the author i) had exhaustively researched existing systems of government, philosophies of government, and proposals for new systems of government, ranging from the archaic to the contemporary, ii) could present a cogent and defensible case for why a given problem in society (or collection of problems) is indeed a problem that needs to be solved, iii) could present a cogent and thorough (to the utmost) description of a novel system of government, iv) could argue logically and persuasively in defense of the new system, in particular to establish its novelty, its unique promise as a solution to the social problem(s) identified, its feasibility, and the full corpus of evidence favourable to its defense, v) could capably address (at the very least) the most preliminary and obvious criticisms of the new system, vi) had provided a clear proposal on how the new system could be implemented and evaluated--preferably at modest scale--as well as a clear idea of how success versus failure would be measured, and vii) had supplemented points (i)-(vi) with so much relevant knowledge from existing literature (including ideas, data, examples, laws, etc.) that it left no doubt he (the author) had invested years of intense work into conceiving, fashioning, refining, and testing a truly novel, realistic, necessary, and well-conceived alternative system of government.

Even so, such an author shouldn't expect his work to have widespread recognition. If it did receive recognition, he should expect a lifetime of intense criticism. In the fantastically unlikely circumstances that it received recognition, endured criticism, and prevailed over hundreds of competing proposals, if it's a truly revolutionary (i.e. radical) redesign of society, the author shouldn't expect it to see it implemented in the real world unless/until some cataclysmic event shook the foundations of the established government and prompted the search for a superior alternative. At this point, the author's original thesis would be regarded as more of a manifesto, similar to selected writings of Plato, Locke, Descartes, Hegel, Kant, Nietzsche, Marx, and even demagogues like Hitler and Mao, among countless others. It would likely happen posthumously.

Personally, having observed the violent resistance to proposals as modest as tweaks to voting procedures (e.g. photo identification, e-voting, "quadratic voting"), trying to sell the wary public on an entirely new system of government is not something I'd ever attempt in the 21st Century.

On a message board, I'd limit myself to discussing specific, tightly-proscribed proposals already in existence that might have a snowball's chance in Hell of actually being implemented somewhere in our lifetimes. For example, a poll asking "What do you think about quadratic voting?", along with a description and references to pro/con articles for sake of the 99.9% of readers who have no blessed idea what "quadratic voting" is or why anyone should care.
 
Do any of you, brilliant, independent critical thinkers, have any ideas on how society could be organized using science?

Try to dig scientific evidence behind each piece of daily news broadcast, you will then be bored to die the second day after started building such a society.
 
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