• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Godless Liberals

Exquisitor said:
How do you say this world was created when there is no creator?
Click to expand...

I didn't say there is NO creator, just not convinced that it's some anthropomorphic giant bearded white haired old man that lives in the sky, quick to anger and swift to punish, and filled with innumerable contradictions.
Any thing or any one capable of such creation is likely a lot more elegant and a lot more harmonious.
It's mighty egotistical to think that we here on Earth comprise the sum total magnum opus of "the Lord's image".

Chevy made Vegas but you don't see Mary Barra running around trumpeting the Chevy Vega as GM's crowning achievement, do you? I'm inclined to put the human race as being somewhere between the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto.

Yes, they both have four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel but that is where the similarity between them and a Corvette or Shelby Mustang ends.
 
Exquisitor said:
The rapture can occur for anyone at any time, it doesn't take a Tribulation, but all over time, creation and the spheres there is a potential for such an event at the Tribulation.

If one group is sufficiently good, and another sufficiently bad the good can be taken out as a dispensation of grace.

The raptured group could find them selves on a planet with everybody else disappeared and at first you have lots of people wondering why they were left behind and bad people taken until they figure out there's Tribulation going on next door without you and the Mark of the Beast is going to pull you through that realm.

There are lots of different kinds of Tribulation throughout the realms and all this has been already; certainly there are realms of tomorrow.

The new Jerusalem goes here and there among the reams with is reflections always standing ready for use in any realm.

Doubtlessly they have it saved for the middle Tribulation in five million years.

The disk has only touched the meridian, not so much is in readiness for the big festivities, but if we see anything like this at all I will consider it a bad day.

The collective consciousness would have to coalesces such a manifestation one way or another, the trick is to get through the Tribulation without it.

We're doing pretty good there with North Korea in no position to become the economic powerhouse it would need to be to try something in any kind of time.

More-over, geo-politically, Un can't get into any position in time.

Such is the first Tribulation.
Click to expand...

Gibberish.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Imagine a faith so weak that one has to resort to trying to "scare" people into accepting it.
Click to expand...
It's sad, I wasted so many years in it. Though I was never trying to use dishonest tactics like seen here. I actually believed and lived in, and not just on an internet forum scaring strangers.
 
Exquisitor said:
I don't personally believe there is such a proof.
Click to expand...

Then you admit it's just a hunch, at best. Or, it's something you were led to believe, at worst.
 
zyzygy said:
Maybe, if you could prove that he exists.
Click to expand...

Do you go around trying to prove you exist to people?

If you were god, would you want people to be able to prove it?
 
Risky Thicket said:
There was silence on the line as the lady listened. Later she said she'd pray for me and then she hung up. As far as I know none of the cult followers gave up anything to anyone in anticipation of the Rapture.

Money changes everything.
Click to expand...

That "When the Rapture comes, can I have all your stuff" gambit has been repeated several dozen times since then, with predictable results.
CLICK BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....... :lamo
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I didn't say there is NO creator, just not convinced that it's some anthropomorphic giant bearded white haired old man that lives in the sky, quick to anger and swift to punish, and filled with innumerable contradictions.
Any thing or any one capable of such creation is likely a lot more elegant and a lot more harmonious.
It's mighty egotistical to think that we here on Earth comprise the sum total magnum opus of "the Lord's image".

Chevy made Vegas but you don't see Mary Barra running around trumpeting the Chevy Vega as GM's crowning achievement, do you? I'm inclined to put the human race as being somewhere between the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto.

Yes, they both have four wheels, an engine and a steering wheel but that is where the similarity between them and a Corvette or Shelby Mustang ends.
Click to expand...

Humans remind me more of the Chevette.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I left the "religion" part behind but I still consider myself to be a spiritual person who welcomes God.
It's just that I do not believe our tiny brained ancestors were able to comprehend the entire message, and I also believe that scientists are the ones most able to observe God's handiwork, instead of some grifters who know how to mumble the right incantations to hypnotize a fearful and insecure people.

I left organized religion behind because I don't think God ever intended there to be such a thing in the first place.
Enlightenment is what spiritually sound people aspire to. Religion is what addicts crave as a fix.
Click to expand...
I'm okay with spiritual phenomenology, but problems come in when you assert that mental experience is indicative of a metaphysical realm or creator. I think there is absolutely no creator needed to explain any stage of the universe, even creation. Why do we have such arrogance that we think what happens in our minds is true of the whole universe. It seems we are just cognitive and conscious beings trying to find meaning in a meaningless universe that is full of suffering. Religion came in to give justification to the Rights of Kings to rule over his subjects.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I left the "religion" part behind but I still consider myself to be a spiritual person who welcomes God.
It's just that I do not believe our tiny brained ancestors were able to comprehend the entire message, and I also believe that scientists are the ones most able to observe God's handiwork, instead of some grifters who know how to mumble the right incantations to hypnotize a fearful and insecure people.

I left organized religion behind because I don't think God ever intended there to be such a thing in the first place.
Enlightenment is what spiritually sound people aspire to. Religion is what addicts crave as a fix.
Click to expand...

Spirituality without religion is a fine thing, especially after eating a 1/4 ounce of mushrooms.
 
TrueScotsman said:
It's sad, I wasted so many years in it. Though I was never trying to use dishonest tactics like seen here. I actually believed and lived in, and not just on an internet forum scaring strangers.
Click to expand...

I was raised Roman Catholic by a very good and devout Catholic mother who married a very good and somewhat non-devout reformed German Jew. I progressed through something like twenty different faiths after my Catholic pastor informed me at age nine that my parents marriage was such that my salvation, even as a believer, might be in jeopardy as I was the product of a not quite so blessed union.

I am here today having witnessed just how crappy true believers can be to their fellow man, and I believe that I learned how to make peace and walk proudly before my God. It's just that I also learned that churches are not where God lives.
He's always been something of an absentee landlord as far as they're concerned, and probably good that He is, too.
Not good for us, but certainly good for Him.

But "God" is indeed present, in some kind of form, and the hot tip is, you don't want to join a church if you're looking for Him.
Read a science book, that's an excellent start.
 
zyzygy said:
Belief in the existence of a god is just that. A belief.
Click to expand...

Proofs exist, but some things have no proofs, but can still be used to prove others.

I don't know if you could prove that you can't prove god, I'd have to be a little smarter; than god.

I really seriously doubt you can prove God from the point of privacy.

You can't prove god, but you can know him and some say this is proof, but they don't understand philosophy.
 
TrueScotsman said:
I'm okay with spiritual phenomenology, but problems come in when you assert that mental experience is indicative of a metaphysical realm or creator. I think there is absolutely no creator needed to explain any stage of the universe, even creation. Why do we have such arrogance that we think what happens in our minds is true of the whole universe. It seems we are just cognitive and conscious beings trying to find meaning in a meaningless universe that is full of suffering. Religion came in to give justification to the Rights of Kings to rule over his subjects.
Click to expand...

Bold: I think they believe god tells them so. :shrug:
 
calamity said:
Then you admit it's just a hunch, at best. Or, it's something you were led to believe, at worst.
Click to expand...

Tell me; two parallel lines, a line crosses one of them, then it must at some point cross the other line, no?

Can't prove it.

The lines could be infinitely far apart or space spherical and thus the yet to be discovered branch of Mathematics; infinite distance.
 
calamity said:
Humans remind me more of the Chevette.
Click to expand...

HA!!! And DOUBLE HA!!! The Chevette was actually a pretty decent car at least as far as snot box cars of the 70's and 80's go.
For the money, it did at least as good a job as any comparable Toyota or Datsun of the time.
 
Exquisitor said:
How do you say this world was created when there is no creator?
Click to expand...

Can you show that the world was created, rather than just formed from natural processes.
 
calamity said:
Bold: I think they believe god tells them so. :shrug:
Click to expand...
It isn't just religious people who think this way, but those who are metaphysically spiritual. I think it is because we do preference our own phenomenological experience. Just because something pops into my head or I have an experience or sensation, doesn't mean it is true of something in the real world. Truth must be established in a more robust way if we are not to be deceived.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I was raised Roman Catholic by a very good and devout Catholic mother who married a very good and somewhat non-devout reformed German Jew. I progressed through something like twenty different faiths after my Catholic pastor informed me at age nine that my parents marriage was such that my salvation, even as a believer, might be in jeopardy as I was the product of a not quite so blessed union.

I am here today having witnessed just how crappy true believers can be to their fellow man, and I believe that I learned how to make peace and walk proudly before my God. It's just that I also learned that churches are not where God lives.
He's always been something of an absentee landlord as far as they're concerned, and probably good that He is, too.
Not good for us, but certainly good for Him.

But "God" is indeed present, in some kind of form, and the hot tip is, you don't want to join a church if you're looking for Him.
Read a science book, that's an excellent start.
Click to expand...
Read many science books, which is why I am a naturalist. I think some kind of deistic god is possible, but a benevolent god that cares about humans and wants to connect with them, I find no evidence of.
 
RAMOSS said:
Can you show that the world was created, rather than just formed from natural processes.
Click to expand...

The energy had to come from somewhere.

The energy is simultaneously thee things; ignorance, goodness and passion.

Three times three includes a father, son and holy ghost.

The impersonalist view is useful, but it is no better to be attached to than the personal view.

To say the world is created in ignorance is fine.
 
TrueScotsman said:
Read many science books, which is why I am a naturalist. I think some kind of deistic god is possible, but a benevolent god that cares about humans and wants to connect with them, I find no evidence of.
Click to expand...

Spinoza's God. Einstein spoke of Spinoza's God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom