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The Farce of Religious Freedom

calamity

calamity

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In the US, religious freedom is simply an excuse used by the majority to persecute the minority under the guise of exercising honestly held beliefs while stripping those who do not believe these things of their rights.

Gays, women seeking birth control and abortions, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. know exactly what I am talking about. Christians will probably play the victim.
 
calamity said:
In the US, religious freedom is simply an excuse used by the majority to persecute the minority under the guise of exercising honestly held beliefs while stripping those who do not believe these things of their rights.

Gays, women seeking birth control and abortions, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. know exactly what I am talking about. Christians will probably play the victim.
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I agree...Christians have no right to dictate to others how to live, in law or in government...it should be a personal choice as long as personal lifestyle does not infringe on another's...
 
calamity said:
In the US, religious freedom is simply an excuse used by the majority to persecute the minority under the guise of exercising honestly held beliefs while stripping those who do not believe these things of their rights.

Gays, women seeking birth control and abortions, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. know exactly what I am talking about. Christians will probably play the victim.
Click to expand...

While Christians are indeed the majority of American’s who are RELIGIOUS, I don’t think that Christians themselves comprise the majority of ALL AMERICANS. Approximately 46% of all American’s are irreligious (categorized as unaffiliated, atheist, agnostic, or “nothing in particular”). This would reflect that the majority of American’s (54%) are religious, but the majority of American’s aren’t Christian. If Christians, as the religious majority, make up 71% of 54%, that would equate to approx. 38% of ALL AMERICAN’S. In other words, there is no reason for American’s to allow 38% of American’s to dictate their religious views upon them. Use the power of the vote.


OM
 
Elvira said:
I agree...Christians have no right to dictate to others how to live, in law or in government...it should be a personal choice as long as personal lifestyle does not infringe on another's...
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Agreed, well said, Elvira.
 
Elvira said:
I agree...Christians have no right to dictate to others how to live, in law or in government...it should be a personal choice as long as personal lifestyle does not infringe on another's...
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The 1st Amendment concerning religion doesn't state a specific religion, church or belief. It's simply the right to live our lives based on our conscience. That includes voting for someone we feel will support our conscience, which will be different for all people. It's not an amendment for Christianity. What it does do is keep the Government from eliminating religion. So, every Church is free to decide what the conscience for that Church will be. If they go along with Romans Chapter one and denounce homosexual acts as sin, they have a right to the freedom they choose to express. The Government doesn't have a right to step in and prevent a Church or individual to teach homosexual acts are sin. The Bill of Rights are for the people to be protected against the Government. Not the other way around.
 
calamity said:
In the US, religious freedom is simply an excuse used by the majority to persecute the minority under the guise of exercising honestly held beliefs while stripping those who do not believe these things of their rights.

Gays, women seeking birth control and abortions, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. know exactly what I am talking about. Christians will probably play the victim.
Click to expand...

We will only play the victim when we are not allowed to live our religion based on our own conscience. The Government has no right to make religious people to do those things against their will. The Bill of Rights are for the people to exercise their religion and express it in their own ways. The Bill of Rights is not for the Government's rights.
 
Cougarbear said:
The 1st Amendment concerning religion doesn't state a specific religion, church or belief. It's simply the right to live our lives based on our conscience. That includes voting for someone we feel will support our conscience, which will be different for all people. It's not an amendment for Christianity. What it does do is keep the Government from eliminating religion. So, every Church is free to decide what the conscience for that Church will be. If they go along with Romans Chapter one and denounce homosexual acts as sin, they have a right to the freedom they choose to express. The Government doesn't have a right to step in and prevent a Church or individual to teach homosexual acts are sin. The Bill of Rights are for the people to be protected against the Government. Not the other way around.
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The Bible teaches neutrality for Christians...God’s things to God... “You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price.” 1 Corinthians 6:19,20

This includes a person’s wholehearted worship, whole-souled love, and complete, loyal obedience...no one or nothing else, including earthly governments...Matthew 4:10; 22:37, 38; Acts 5:29; Romans 14:8
 
calamity said:
In the US, religious freedom is simply an excuse used by the majority to persecute the minority under the guise of exercising honestly held beliefs while stripping those who do not believe these things of their rights.

Gays, women seeking birth control and abortions, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. know exactly what I am talking about. Christians will probably play the victim.
Click to expand...

its not simply that i mean that happens to but its still about being able to believe what you want openly even if people abuse it to try and control others or get around laws they don't want to follow
 
Cougarbear said:
We will only play the victim when we are not allowed to live our religion based on our own conscience. The Government has no right to make religious people to do those things against their will. The Bill of Rights are for the people to exercise their religion and express it in their own ways. The Bill of Rights is not for the Government's rights.
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The government is making religious people get abortions, be gay, become Muslim or Jews? :shock:

Oh, I get it. You’re complaining because the government won’t let you force people to carry each pregnancy to term or discriminate against gays, Muslims and Jews. Got it.
 
calamity said:
The government is making religious people get abortions, be gay, become Muslim or Jews? :shock:

Oh, I get it. You’re complaining because the government won’t let you force people to carry each pregnancy to term or discriminate against gays, Muslims and Jews. Got it.
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The grotesque silliness of that claim is laughable.
 
Omega Man said:
While Christians are indeed the majority of American’s who are RELIGIOUS, I don’t think that Christians themselves comprise the majority of ALL AMERICANS. Approximately 46% of all American’s are irreligious (categorized as unaffiliated, atheist, agnostic, or “nothing in particular”). This would reflect that the majority of American’s (54%) are religious, but the majority of American’s aren’t Christian. If Christians, as the religious majority, make up 71% of 54%, that would equate to approx. 38% of ALL AMERICAN’S. In other words, there is no reason for American’s to allow 38% of American’s to dictate their religious views upon them. Use the power of the vote.


OM
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Well I don't get how the religious people are dictating anything by exercising their first amendment rights. And even if they were a tiny minority they should still have those rights.
 
In a democratic society, people should be able to argue for issues and positions on their own merits. They cannot just tack on a “God says” to their latest opinions and think that that’s a good enough reason to push those views on everybody else, whether it’s about gay marriage or women covering their face with a hijab.

As soon as anyone tacks on a “God says so” to their latest opinions, it short circuits any attempts at rationality and further discussion. It subverts democracy. That’s what it’s designed to do. How do you rationalize, appeal to facts, or debate someone is telling you “do it because God said so”? It’s a great way of just shutting the eyes, ears, and minds and asking for blind, unquestioning obedience.
 
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it's just me said:
The grotesque silliness of that claim is laughable.
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And, considering the 'heartbeat laws' that are currently being passed in the bible belt, how is that silly?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Well I don't get how the religious people are dictating anything by exercising their first amendment rights. And even if they were a tiny minority they should still have those rights.
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If someone doesn't want to use birth control, or get an abortion, don't do it. If someone wants to deny a woman a medication for a miscarriage, because it's the same medication someone uses for an abortion ad puts that persons life at risk.. then.. it's dictating things. When laws are passed about specific medical procedures because of religious objections and purposeful misinformation, that is more than exercising first amendment rights, that is trying impose their religious viewpoint on others.
 
RAMOSS said:
If someone doesn't want to use birth control, or get an abortion, don't do it. If someone wants to deny a woman a medication for a miscarriage, because it's the same medication someone uses for an abortion ad puts that persons life at risk.. then.. it's dictating things.
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if someone did that I would think that would probably spend time in jail.

When laws are passed about specific medical procedures because of religious objections and purposeful misinformation, that is more than exercising first amendment rights, that is trying impose their religious viewpoint on others.
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what medical procedures are being banned because of religious viewpoints?
 
CLAX1911 said:
if someone did that I would think that would probably spend time in jail.

what medical procedures are being banned because of religious viewpoints?
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Theintact dilation and evacuation for one. THe dilation and evacuation method in Ohio for another. Eliminating those procedures greatly increases the risk to the woman if there is a medical need for abortion.
 
RAMOSS said:
Theintact dilation and evacuation for one. THe dilation and evacuation method in Ohio for another. Eliminating those procedures greatly increases the risk to the woman if there is a medical need for abortion.
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I think these laws are geared for abortion as a means of birth control not as a means for life-saving treatment.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I think these laws are geared for abortion as a means of birth control not as a means for life-saving treatment.
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No , those are going to medical procedures that do not address that 'birth control' verses medical necessity.
'
In both cases though, the legislators were pandering to their religious constituents to impose their religious morals and judgements on everyone.
 
How about the farce of secular humanists trying to dictate their jack-legged desires to push Christianity into the closet while pushing carnal hedonism on the streets? You want another Sodom and Gomorrah butt kicking from God?
 
CLAX1911 said:
What are those that are going I don't know what you're talking about.
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The first one was called 'intact dilation and extraction' and was only used in late term abortions. There only reason it would be used is if there was a strong medical necessity, such as deformed fetus or if the woman's physical health was strongly being effected. It was a rare procedure, but political games were played to pander to the religious right.

And that affects everyone..
 
Logicman said:
How about the farce of secular humanists trying to dictate their jack-legged desires to push Christianity into the closet while pushing carnal hedonism on the streets? You want another Sodom and Gomorrah butt kicking from God?
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That is inevitable...only this time it will be on a global scale and everlasting...
 
RAMOSS said:
The first one was called 'intact dilation and extraction' and was only used in late term abortions.
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okay I'm not that interested in medical terminology, I don't understand why you started talking about that.

There only reason it would be used is if there was a strong medical necessity, such as deformed fetus or if the woman's physical health was strongly being effected.
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so is your contention that people are trying to make this illegal?

It was a rare procedure, but political games were played to pander to the religious right.

And that affects everyone..
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you're missing something here it's not making any sense.
 
CLAX1911 said:
okay I'm not that interested in medical terminology, I don't understand why you started talking about that.

so is your contention that people are trying to make this illegal?

you're missing something here it's not making any sense.
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It's because those procedures are being restricted because people are getting their religious views into law about abortion.

Doh
 
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