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Historic significant of Cathedrals

joko104

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One of the most terrible failures of our educational system for which we all pay a terrible price is history isn't taught anymore to any real degree. I keep reading people defining Notre Dame Cathedral as a "work of art" along with all the "art" in it.

Cathedrals, particularly Catholic as all the early ones are, are more than anything else a picture book. For centuries, nearly all Europeans were illiterate and had lives as bad or worse than slaves. While American slaves were often brutalized, there weren't torture chambers all across the Southern stated like there was in ancient Europe. For centuries, the average lifespan was less than age 30 and nearly every ordinary person grew up as an orphan.

Most ancient Europeans were born into essentially slavery and hopelessness. The church doctrine was to keep them well behaved and marketed fear (hell) and hope (heaven). Simply, the only "hope" a European serf or peasant had for a good life could come after death, ie heaven. Nothing that Catholic services were in Latin, none had a Bible nor could read it if they did - plus the Bible didn't come until later, all of what Christianity is to people was told in the images of the local Cathedral.

The pictures, statutes and stained glass all told truly uneducated ignorant people of hopeless lives the story of Jesus. The heroes and villains of the Bible stories, what angels and demons looked like, the terrible horror of perpetual torture in hell and the only hope in the wondrous heaven. This, combined with the awesomeness of the Cathedrals themselves, defines Christianity to this day in terms of perceptions and mental imagery. The power of this PR was controlling of people's lives. It was their only hope and the best purpose of their life as many saw it, preferring to slave-away serving Christianity rather than slaving-away as a field hand or otherwise essentially a slave otherwise.

Now? Cathedrals are nothing more than tourist traps. Most are abandoned and so derelict they are being torn down. Christianity is all but dead in Europe, with the growing religion (and construction) for the religion of Islam, which still largely operates the way 16th century Christianity did in most of the world today.

Personally, I think the fire mostly likely by arson - whether some crazy lone wolf type who just started a fire to start a fire, or a lone wolf Muslim (not "the Muslims") or possibly a French communist/socialist atheist. If so, we'll never be told as the French government immediately decided on the narrative they would tell - blame in on some unnamed workman.

As truly awesome as Notre Dame is - taking almost 100 years (4 to 5 generations of adults) to build - but continued to be added to for the next centuries - it burning is no real lose as the religion is was the book of is no longer of any relevancy to France. It would be impossible to rebuilt it to its original form as there aren't 25 acres of 400 year old oak trees to be had. I don't think it matters whether it is or not. What it represents no longer exists and it became just another tourist trap, nothing else.
 
I would have been more impressed if the Church had spent the money on the poor.
 
I would have been more impressed if the Church had spent the money on the poor.

id be more impressed if joko would not down play slavery and make conspiracy theories
 
One of the most terrible failures of our educational system for which we all pay a terrible price is history isn't taught anymore to any real degree. I keep reading people defining Notre Dame Cathedral as a "work of art" along with all the "art" in it.

Cathedrals, particularly Catholic as all the early ones are, are more than anything else a picture book. For centuries, nearly all Europeans were illiterate and had lives as bad or worse than slaves. While American slaves were often brutalized, there weren't torture chambers all across the Southern stated like there was in ancient Europe. For centuries, the average lifespan was less than age 30 and nearly every ordinary person grew up as an orphan.

Most ancient Europeans were born into essentially slavery and hopelessness. The church doctrine was to keep them well behaved and marketed fear (hell) and hope (heaven). Simply, the only "hope" a European serf or peasant had for a good life could come after death, ie heaven. Nothing that Catholic services were in Latin, none had a Bible nor could read it if they did - plus the Bible didn't come until later, all of what Christianity is to people was told in the images of the local Cathedral.

The pictures, statutes and stained glass all told truly uneducated ignorant people of hopeless lives the story of Jesus. The heroes and villains of the Bible stories, what angels and demons looked like, the terrible horror of perpetual torture in hell and the only hope in the wondrous heaven. This, combined with the awesomeness of the Cathedrals themselves, defines Christianity to this day in terms of perceptions and mental imagery. The power of this PR was controlling of people's lives. It was their only hope and the best purpose of their life as many saw it, preferring to slave-away serving Christianity rather than slaving-away as a field hand or otherwise essentially a slave otherwise.

Now? Cathedrals are nothing more than tourist traps. Most are abandoned and so derelict they are being torn down. Christianity is all but dead in Europe, with the growing religion (and construction) for the religion of Islam, which still largely operates the way 16th century Christianity did in most of the world today.

Personally, I think the fire mostly likely by arson - whether some crazy lone wolf type who just started a fire to start a fire, or a lone wolf Muslim (not "the Muslims") or possibly a French communist/socialist atheist. If so, we'll never be told as the French government immediately decided on the narrative they would tell - blame in on some unnamed workman.

As truly awesome as Notre Dame is - taking almost 100 years (4 to 5 generations of adults) to build - but continued to be added to for the next centuries - it burning is no real lose as the religion is was the book of is no longer of any relevancy to France. It would be impossible to rebuilt it to its original form as there aren't 25 acres of 400 year old oak trees to be had. I don't think it matters whether it is or not. What it represents no longer exists and it became just another tourist trap, nothing else.

Churches burn too - they're just buildings. :shrug:
It's the historical value though, that makes this so heartbreaking. It's from the 12th century.
It's also why it's a popular tourist site! Not because it's a church - but because of its history!
Old churches - like any old relic buildings - attract tourists!


But.......I can't help but see the symbolism of this devastation with the devastation of the
Catholic Church with all these sexual scandal!


And yet.....amid all the destruction by this fire, I see the giant CROSS in all the photos they show on tv!
It shines - and it stands out!

What a beautiful imagery and message it presents!
I was so struck by it that I googled.....


Pictures of Notre Dame Cathedral Interior Show Altar and Giant Cross That Survived the Fierce Blaze

Pictures of Notre Dame Cathedral Interior Show Altar and Giant Cross That Survived the Fierce Blaze
 
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The cathedral is an act of devotion and aspiration. One need not be a Christian to appreciate it.
 
The cathedral is an act of devotion and aspiration. One need not be a Christian to appreciate it.

Any building, regardless of it's original intent, that has stood for well over 900 years is awe inspiring.
 
id be more impressed if joko would not down play slavery and make conspiracy theories

Go ahead and make your case defending the 12th century Catholic Church in France and its treatment of people.

Fill in this blank since it's your claim: "Being a slave was worse than being a serf and being burned alive at the stake after being tortured because ________________________________________" OR explain your conspiracy theory of how all of history books are wrong and no one was subjugated, tortured or killed on order of the French Catholic Church. :roll:
 
Go ahead and make your case defending the 12th century Catholic Church in France and its treatment of people.

Fill in this blank since it's your claim: "Being a slave was worse than being a serf and being burned alive at the stake after being tortured because ________________________________________" OR explain your conspiracy theory of how all of history books are wrong and no one was subjugated, tortured or killed on order of the French Catholic Church. :roll:

so silly
 
Any building, regardless of it's original intent, that has stood for well over 900 years is awe inspiring.

That any person, regardless of religious persuasion, can see what human devotion to a positive cause can produce is enough. Whether one believes in the religious symbols and artifacts or not, the effort and result is awe inspiring.
 
I may no longer be a religious person, but I was overwhelmingly saddened yesterday from a cultural perspective. There is no doubt as to the vast sense of reverence which cathedrals such as this invoke within my culture; a place of sanctuary, a refuge for beleaguered souls. A reminder that our world still offers us a sense of stability in an unstable world.


OM
 
One of the most terrible failures of our educational system for which we all pay a terrible price is history isn't taught anymore to any real degree. I keep reading people defining Notre Dame Cathedral as a "work of art" along with all the "art" in it.

Cathedrals, particularly Catholic as all the early ones are, are more than anything else a picture book. For centuries, nearly all Europeans were illiterate and had lives as bad or worse than slaves. While American slaves were often brutalized, there weren't torture chambers all across the Southern stated like there was in ancient Europe. For centuries, the average lifespan was less than age 30 and nearly every ordinary person grew up as an orphan.

Most ancient Europeans were born into essentially slavery and hopelessness. The church doctrine was to keep them well behaved and marketed fear (hell) and hope (heaven). Simply, the only "hope" a European serf or peasant had for a good life could come after death, ie heaven. Nothing that Catholic services were in Latin, none had a Bible nor could read it if they did - plus the Bible didn't come until later, all of what Christianity is to people was told in the images of the local Cathedral.

The pictures, statutes and stained glass all told truly uneducated ignorant people of hopeless lives the story of Jesus. The heroes and villains of the Bible stories, what angels and demons looked like, the terrible horror of perpetual torture in hell and the only hope in the wondrous heaven. This, combined with the awesomeness of the Cathedrals themselves, defines Christianity to this day in terms of perceptions and mental imagery. The power of this PR was controlling of people's lives. It was their only hope and the best purpose of their life as many saw it, preferring to slave-away serving Christianity rather than slaving-away as a field hand or otherwise essentially a slave otherwise.

Now? Cathedrals are nothing more than tourist traps. Most are abandoned and so derelict they are being torn down. Christianity is all but dead in Europe, with the growing religion (and construction) for the religion of Islam, which still largely operates the way 16th century Christianity did in most of the world today.

Personally, I think the fire mostly likely by arson - whether some crazy lone wolf type who just started a fire to start a fire, or a lone wolf Muslim (not "the Muslims") or possibly a French communist/socialist atheist. If so, we'll never be told as the French government immediately decided on the narrative they would tell - blame in on some unnamed workman.

As truly awesome as Notre Dame is - taking almost 100 years (4 to 5 generations of adults) to build - but continued to be added to for the next centuries - it burning is no real lose as the religion is was the book of is no longer of any relevancy to France. It would be impossible to rebuilt it to its original form as there aren't 25 acres of 400 year old oak trees to be had. I don't think it matters whether it is or not. What it represents no longer exists and it became just another tourist trap, nothing else.


A Cathedral gets its name from "Cathedra" = "chair". The bishop's chair is a "symbol" of his teaching authority. That is why every Catholic diocese only has one Cathedral, the bishop's church.
 
One of the most terrible failures of our educational system for which we all pay a terrible price is history isn't taught anymore to any real degree. I keep reading people defining Notre Dame Cathedral as a "work of art" along with all the "art" in it.

Cathedrals, particularly Catholic as all the early ones are, are more than anything else a picture book. For centuries, nearly all Europeans were illiterate and had lives as bad or worse than slaves. While American slaves were often brutalized, there weren't torture chambers all across the Southern stated like there was in ancient Europe. For centuries, the average lifespan was less than age 30 and nearly every ordinary person grew up as an orphan.

Most ancient Europeans were born into essentially slavery and hopelessness. The church doctrine was to keep them well behaved and marketed fear (hell) and hope (heaven). Simply, the only "hope" a European serf or peasant had for a good life could come after death, ie heaven. Nothing that Catholic services were in Latin, none had a Bible nor could read it if they did - plus the Bible didn't come until later, all of what Christianity is to people was told in the images of the local Cathedral.

The pictures, statutes and stained glass all told truly uneducated ignorant people of hopeless lives the story of Jesus. The heroes and villains of the Bible stories, what angels and demons looked like, the terrible horror of perpetual torture in hell and the only hope in the wondrous heaven. This, combined with the awesomeness of the Cathedrals themselves, defines Christianity to this day in terms of perceptions and mental imagery. The power of this PR was controlling of people's lives. It was their only hope and the best purpose of their life as many saw it, preferring to slave-away serving Christianity rather than slaving-away as a field hand or otherwise essentially a slave otherwise.

Now? Cathedrals are nothing more than tourist traps. Most are abandoned and so derelict they are being torn down. Christianity is all but dead in Europe, with the growing religion (and construction) for the religion of Islam, which still largely operates the way 16th century Christianity did in most of the world today.

Personally, I think the fire mostly likely by arson - whether some crazy lone wolf type who just started a fire to start a fire, or a lone wolf Muslim (not "the Muslims") or possibly a French communist/socialist atheist. If so, we'll never be told as the French government immediately decided on the narrative they would tell - blame in on some unnamed workman.

As truly awesome as Notre Dame is - taking almost 100 years (4 to 5 generations of adults) to build - but continued to be added to for the next centuries - it burning is no real lose as the religion is was the book of is no longer of any relevancy to France. It would be impossible to rebuilt it to its original form as there aren't 25 acres of 400 year old oak trees to be had. I don't think it matters whether it is or not. What it represents no longer exists and it became just another tourist trap, nothing else.

This is such saturated modernist propaganda, it's hard to know where to begin.
 
Go ahead and make your case defending the 12th century Catholic Church in France and its treatment of people.

Fill in this blank since it's your claim: "Being a slave was worse than being a serf and being burned alive at the stake after being tortured because ________________________________________" OR explain your conspiracy theory of how all of history books are wrong and no one was subjugated, tortured or killed on order of the French Catholic Church. :roll:

:)

Ok, the Catholic Church created hospitals and a network of schools for the lower orders of French society. The Catholic church also protected the peasantry by guaranteeing them time off from labor on sundays and on important feast days. The Church also could de-legitimize secular authorities with excommunication, one way you could be excomm'd was by cheating laborers out of their wages.

burning at the stake was relatively rare and was always carried out not by the church, but by the secular authorities of the region where the execution was carried out. The reason heresy and witchcraft were capital offenses was because in that society these were serious offenses against public order that could threaten innocent people. Witches often sold fraudulent treatments for ailments or took money to "curse" or "hex" people as well as carrying out organized criminal activity (as an aside, there was a ring of people purporting to be witches and warlocks in Chile from the 16th to 19th centuries, they used the threat of curses to extort protection money from farmers and merchants, this was not uncommon in Europe where non-church "religious authorities" would intimidate people for payment)
 
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