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Is religion about avoiding reality?

Wayne Jr said:
Some religions do, some don't. Most of my family is Catholic and while I don't buy into magic sky wizards I can't deny that the church requiring pre-marital counseling in order to marry a couple is nothing short of 'helping people face reality'. The church also offers help overcoming drug addiction, financial education, has several top schools, numerous shelters....

You don't NEED religion to face reality but some religions do help you face reality.
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The growth of the control or infrastructure of the church into all aspects of society does not mean that the central mean of it is not just plain bad.

The lack of limits on the social framework of the church just makes it even more of a cult. Sealing off its' flock from the wider world.
 
zyzygy said:
A celibate priest advising about marriage? I can spot a flaw there.
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You can do the whole thing online if you want, and I know of married laymen who conduct in-person classes. Every so-often someone from the church approaches me to take the conversion classes, and those are largely taught by laymen as well. The whole thing is signed off by a priest, sure, but it's not necessarily a priest giving the class

I just don't buy into invisible enchanted sky pixies, but I do believe in pre-marital counseling in any form. Something is better than nothing.
 
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Wayne Jr said:
You can do the whole thing online if you want, and I know of married laymen who conduct in-person classes. Every so-often someone from the church approaches me to take the conversion classes, and those are largely taught by laymen as well. The whole thing is signed off by a priest, sure, but it's not necessarily a priest giving the class

I just don't buy into invisible enchanted sky pixies, but I do believe in pre-marital counseling in any form. Something is better than nothing.
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I needed no help when I got married.
 
zyzygy said:
A celibate priest advising about marriage? I can spot a flaw there.
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But as an institution worth 15 billion US, I’m sure they can probably provide sound financial advice. Lol.


OM
 
zyzygy said:
You needed help to be happy?
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Dave Ramsey gives a lot of advice about how to deal with finances and stuff like that, which is known called by some 'adulting'
 
RAMOSS said:
Dave Ramsey gives a lot of advice about how to deal with finances and stuff like that, which is known called by some 'adulting'
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I was an adult when I got married.
 
zyzygy said:
I was an adult when I got married.
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"Adulting" is a term that 30 year old millennials use when complaining about having to function for themselves.


OM
 
RAMOSS said:
But not everyone was taught the financial skills by their parents.
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I know I certainly wasn't, and my father was a Finance major. Everything I learned I had to figure out on my own through the companies I worked for, and the schooling I put myself through.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
I know I certainly wasn't, and my father was a Finance major. Everything I learned I had to figure out on my own through the companies I worked for, and the schooling I put myself through.


OM
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It's not rocket science. I left the nest and got my own apartment when I was almost 18.
 
zyzygy said:
A celibate priest advising about marriage? I can spot a flaw there.
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Not all religions have celibate priests, so are you stating that the ones that do not are free of the "flaw" you perceive?

Sometimes jokes that sound like they're logical are really useful only as jokes, not as logic.
 
Ouroboros said:
Not all religions have celibate priests, so are you stating that the ones that do not are free of the "flaw" you perceive?

Sometimes jokes that sound like they're logical are really useful only as jokes, not as logic.
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He was responding to Wayne Jr., who in turn specifically mentioned Catholic priest counseling. Last I checked, Catholic priests were indeed celibate.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
He was responding to Wayne Jr., who in turn specifically mentioned Catholic priest counseling. Last I checked, Catholic priests were indeed celibate.


OM
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Yeah, I followed that, but since the thread is about religion in general being used to avoid reality, I sought to find out if religions w/o celibate priests were immune to the alleged "flaw" re: giving marriage advice.
 
Ouroboros said:
Yeah, I followed that, but since the thread is about religion in general being used to avoid reality, I sought to find out if religions w/o celibate priests were immune to the alleged "flaw" re: giving marriage advice.
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Yes, but z's response wasn't in relation to religion in general; it was specific to Catholic priests - priests who are celibate.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
Yes, but z's response wasn't in relation to religion in general; it was specific to Catholic priests - priests who are celibate.


OM
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He did mention the Catholic Church.
 
Omega Man said:
Yes, but z's response wasn't in relation to religion in general; it was specific to Catholic priests - priests who are celibate.


OM
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And I'm trying to find out if the speaker will admit that his joke at the expense of Catholics is largely irrelevant to other religions, which I believe more than a little pertinent to the thread's topic.
 
Ouroboros said:
And I'm trying to find out if the speaker will admit that his joke at the expense of Catholics is largely irrelevant to other religions, which I believe more than a little pertinent to the thread's topic.
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Sounds suspiciously like a straw man argument (a gap in logic), seeing as his response (nor the preceding comment which prompted his response) in no way had anything to do whatsoever with "other" religions. What then is there to "admit"?


OM
 
It would not be a church giving advice about marriage it would be one person's opinion. Why anyone would need advice is a mystery to me.
 
Omega Man said:
Sounds suspiciously like a straw man argument (a gap in logic), seeing as his response (nor the preceding comment which prompted his response) in no way had anything to do whatsoever with "other" religions. What then is there to "admit"?


OM
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So, by your conception of logic, if Z posts a specific gripe about one religion on a thread about religion in general, no one should ask him if his gripe applies to religion generally?

You can judge me guilty of "straw man" arguments when I actually impute an argument to someone that they have not made yet.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Some religions do, some don't. Most of my family is Catholic and while I don't buy into magic sky wizards I can't deny that the church requiring pre-marital counseling in order to marry a couple is nothing short of 'helping people face reality'. The church also offers help overcoming drug addiction, financial education, has several top schools, numerous shelters....

You don't NEED religion to face reality but some religions do help you face reality.
Click to expand...

Ouroboros said:
So, by your conception of logic, if Z posts a specific gripe about one religion on a thread about religion in general, no one should ask him if his gripe applies to religion generally?

You can judge me guilty of "straw man" arguments when I actually impute an argument to someone that they have not made yet.
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Now which church would that be?
 
Ouroboros said:
So, by your conception of logic, if Z posts a specific gripe about one religion on a thread about religion in general, no one should ask him if his gripe applies to religion generally?

You can judge me guilty of "straw man" arguments when I actually impute an argument to someone that they have not made yet.
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You should take up your argument with the guy who was talking about marriage counseling administered by Catholic priests; not the guy who answered him, and certainly not me. So yeah, that kind of logic.


OM
 
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Omega Man said:
Precisely. I'm trying figure out where the disconnect is.


OM
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The "requiring" is a bit odd. "Facing reality" too. Engaged couples are well in touch with reality. I don't believe that any church could tell them anything that they don't already know. And asking a celibate priest for advice about marriage is like asking a person blind from birth to explain all about colour.
 
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