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In your own words - What does "Atheist" mean?

Oh absolutely not. Agnostic means "without knowledge." They feel there is inadequate information out there for us to know whether a god exists.

Atheist means "without theism," so atheists feel they have enough knowledge to make a a judgment call to rank the Western god concept (as currently defined) up there with Santa and Zeus. But both groups are intellectually honest enough to review any empirical evidence that might point toward a deity existing. Oftentimes, it's the poorly-defined god concept that both groups can dismiss, just for different reasons.

I don't know anyone who has the belief you describe, that a god doesn't exist. I don't know what group a person like that would fall into. Maybe anti-theist?
Please. Spare me. You make it sound like two teams in a bowling league. Agnostic means without knowledge of diety.

Regardless, you avoided the question. There is a distinction between not believing and in a deity and denying the existence of a deity. The traditional words are Agnostic and Atheist respectively. What is the correct term now?

If something does not exist, why would anyone have to step beyond not having the belief it exists to actively believing it doesn't?
Have to does not enter into it, some do. Hence the distinction.
 
Please. Spare me. You make it sound like two teams in a bowling league. Agnostic means without knowledge of diety.

Regardless, you avoided the question. There is a distinction between not believing and in a deity and denying the existence of a deity. The traditional words are Agnostic and Atheist respectively. What is the correct term now?


Have to does not enter into it, some do. Hence the distinction.
If you want to know what a word means, analyze it. Agnostic is without knowledge and atheism is without religion. I don't mind, however, your definitions. We can certainly say without knowledge to know a deity, and someone without faith (respectively). Both definitions differentiate the groups and lead us to the same end.

If someone truly believes that there is no God, that they have faith that no God exists, I have no time for that. I don't know anybody that believe something doesn't exist. I would advise them to analyze their ideology, and look for contradictions.

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Since it's clear there's very few "believers" here who understand what "atheist" means or what "atheism" is, I'm interested in hearing how people define those words.

In your own words, can you please post what you think "atheist" means?
Or, in your own words, can you please post what "atheism" means?

For example:

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, or gods.

or

An Atheist does not believe in a god or gods.


Which in now way, shape, or form says/states that an Atheist claims there is no god.
There's a difference between saying:

1) I don't believe in a god(s).

and

2) There is no god(s).


Now I'm sure there are some Atheists who might proclaim "There is no god.", but that's not most from what I've seen. It's a very select few.

Most will stop at making a declarative, non-provable statement like that.

The stance is more, "There's insufficient evidence of god(s), therefore I don't believe in them."

So tell me, how do you define "atheist" or "atheism"? (in your own words please)

Atheist = jerk. Someone who hates religious people and goes out of his way to harass them.

You asked....
 
Atheist = jerk. Someone who hates religious people and goes out of his way to harass them.

You asked....

Diary of an Angry White Man...:2razz:
 
If you want to know what a word means, analyze it. Agnostic is without knowledge and atheism is without religion. I don't mind, however, your definitions. We can certainly say without knowledge to know a deity, and someone without faith (respectively). Both definitions differentiate the groups and lead us to the same end.

If someone truly believes that there is no God, that they have faith that no God exists, I have no time for that. I don't know anybody that believe something doesn't exist. I would advise them to analyze their ideology, and look for contradictions.
This is gibberish and you are still avoiding the question. Saying you have no time for it, is not an answer.

It sounds like you believe such people do not exist.
 
Under normal circumstances I'm an atheist.... but in an Oh, **** situation I become a believer. I also tend to get religious during sex.... OH, God...Oh, God.... and a couple of times I promised God if he let me live through this hangover I would never drink again..... or if the pregnancy test showed up negative I would go to church from now on..... of course, He knows I don't keep my promises, but loves me anyways.... much like my wife.
 
This is gibberish and you are still avoiding the question. Saying you have no time for it, is not an answer.

It sounds like you believe such people do not exist.
I was using voice to text. That should have read term, not time.

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I think it is of value to recognize that what people know and what they don't know, is different from what they believe and what they don't believe, which is different from what they claim to know or claim not know, which is different from what they claim to believe and what they claim not to believe. And all of this is different from what people think is actually knowable, and what they do not think is knowable.


These are different concepts but they do tend to muscle in on each others territory and spray paint graffiti in our minds and imaginations. Its our job to keep the whitewash handy in these conversations whether they are just happening in our own heads or here on this forum.

Its tricky because you will notice that the words theist, atheist, agnostic, and gnostic just are not enough to adequately describe all of the above. We don't have quite sufficient vocabulary so we end up with some having some pull double duty here and there. That means we have to keep those brushes and rollers next to the white wash all the time.
 
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I was using voice to text. That should have read term, not time.
Big difference. I guess the kinks aren't worked out yet.

It's rather important because, whether they truly believe it or not, a large number of people act as if they believe it.
 
Big difference. I guess the kinks aren't worked out yet.

It's rather important because, whether they truly believe it or not, a large number of people act as if they believe it.
I really should have been more diligent in my proofreading, but I also assumed there was an edit option on here. I don't use this app often.

Sent from my BLA-A09 using Tapatalk
 
It means a green pre 40's chevy,

What do you think it means,
Try a dictionary.
 
Since it's clear there's very few "believers" here who understand what "atheist" means or what "atheism" is, I'm interested in hearing how people define those words.

In your own words, can you please post what you think "atheist" means?
Or, in your own words, can you please post what "atheism" means?



For example:

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, or gods.

or

An Atheist does not believe in a god or gods.


Which in now way, shape, or form says/states that an Atheist claims there is no god.
There's a difference between saying:

1) I don't believe in a god(s).

and

2) There is no god(s).


Now I'm sure there are some Atheists who might proclaim "There is no god.", but that's not most from what I've seen. It's a very select few.

Most will stop at making a declarative, non-provable statement like that.

The stance is more, "There's insufficient evidence of god(s), therefore I don't believe in them."

So tell me, how do you define "atheist" or "atheism"? (in your own words please)


Let's cut to the chase: atheism simply means no belief in any sort of God or Supreme Being.

Where it gets confusing is the definition of "Agnostic". I've heard that it means: 1) you're not sure of what you believe; 2) you think the answer is unknowable, so what the hell's the point? 3) etc., etc., etc.
 
...Agnostic means "without knowledge." They feel there is inadequate information out there for us to know whether a god exists.

Atheist means "without theism," so atheists feel they have enough knowledge to make a a judgment call to rank the Western god concept (as currently defined) up there with Santa and Zeus...

As a linguist, I am interested in how people approach the question of what words mean, but I want to push back on this very common argument that one can base the meaning of the word on some kind of analysis of word structure or historical derivation. Generally speaking, this kind of argument is called an etymological fallacy. Meanings are fully dependent on how people in a speech community conventionally use the word, and linguistic analysis depends on the active morphological processes that function in the language. So, although English has an active prefix "a-" and such prefixes derive originally from Greek or Latin, the initial syllable in "atheist" is not morphologically active, but vestigial. Typically, the active prefix is used to create new adjectives such as "asocial", "asexual", or "amoral", but not new nouns. In any case, the word "atheist" was borrowed from French originally, and most people who use it are unaware of its historical origins or usage. So it is misleading to argue that the prefix "a-" in this case means "without" or "lacking", since its stem is not even an adjective.

The other point I would make is that definitions should not be confused with meanings. Definitions are very succinct descriptions that help people discover a specific common usage, but words almost always have a range of meanings. That is, they are more or less ambiguous. So dictionaries often give several different usage definitions for a single word entry. Lexicographers tend to differ on how many word senses ought to be listed in the dictionary and how fine-grained those definitions should be. Sometimes, dictionaries have poor or misleading definitions, and I would argue that the word "atheist" tends to attract some rather poorly-worded definitions. I personally dislike the definition "person who does not believe that God or gods exist", because it is ambiguous between whether the person holds no opinion or holds an opinion that gods do not exist.

My preferred wording of the definition for the most common usage of "atheist" would be:

"Person who rejects belief in gods"​

That is what most English speakers use the word to mean, but there are certainly valid usages for the one most favored by atheists in internet debates:

"Person who lacks belief in gods"​

Why do most online atheists prefer the second definition over the first? IMO, it is because they usually engage in debates with theists, and they wish to use the most expansive definition that they can come up with--one that is easiest for atheists to defend. Nevertheless, it seems obvious to me that most people on Earth are theists and regard belief in gods as the default. Atheists reject the default. Hence, theists and atheists tend to get bogged down in arguments over which side most needs to justify their point of view.
 
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As a linguist, I am interested in how people approach the question of what words mean, but I want to push back on this very common argument that one can base the meaning of the word on some kind of analysis of word structure or historical derivation. Generally speaking, this kind of argument is called an etymological fallacy. Meanings are fully dependent on how people in a speech community conventionally use the word, and linguistic analysis depends on the active morphological processes that function in the language. So, although English has an active prefix "a-" and such prefixes derive originally from Greek or Latin, the initial syllable in "atheist" is not morphologically active, but vestigial. Typically, the active prefix is used to create new adjectives such as "asocial", "asexual", or "amoral", but not new nouns. In any case, the word "atheist" was borrowed from French originally, and most people who use it are unaware of its historical origins or usage. So it is misleading to argue that the prefix "a-" in this case means "without" or "lacking", since its stem is not even an adjective.

The other point I would make is that definitions should not be confused with meanings. Definitions are very succinct descriptions that help people discover a specific common usage, but words almost always have a range of meanings. That is, they are more or less ambiguous. So dictionaries often give several different usage definitions for a single word entry. Lexicographers tend to differ on how many word senses ought to be listed in the dictionary and how fine-grained those definitions should be. Sometimes, dictionaries have poor or misleading definitions, and I would argue that the word "atheist" tends to attract some rather poorly-worded definitions. I personally dislike the definition "person who does not believe that God or gods exist", because it is ambiguous between whether the person holds no opinion or holds an opinion that gods do not exist.

My preferred wording of the definition for the most common usage of "atheist" would be:

"Person who rejects belief in gods"​

That is what most English speakers use the word to mean, but there are certainly valid usages for the one most favored by atheists in internet debates:

"Person who lacks belief in gods"​

Why do most online atheists prefer the second definition over the first? IMO, it is because they usually engage in debates with theists, and they wish to use the most expansive definition that they can come up with--one that is easiest for atheists to defend. Nevertheless, it seems obvious to me that most people on Earth are theists and regard belief in gods as the default. Atheists reject the default. Hence, theists and atheists tend to get bogged down in arguments over which side most needs to justify their point of view.

The trouble with both those definitions is that they are written from the point of view of a theist. Neither reject that there is a god they merely state that atheists reject or lack a belief rather than rejecting the god itself.

The way of getting around the bog is by not giving into this theist based definitions and instead giving an explanation of atheism is this manner.

No theist has ever managed to provide empirical evidence of a god. Nor has any theist ever managed to even provide a rational reason for a god. Therefor what reason do i have to consider this god to be anything other than a work of fiction.

If a theist has a problem with this definition then the solution is simple. The onus is on them to demonstrate that the definition is wrong by providing either evidence or a good reason.
 
Copernicus said:
...My preferred wording of the definition for the most common usage of "atheist" would be:

"Person who rejects belief in gods"​

That is what most English speakers use the word to mean, but there are certainly valid usages for the one most favored by atheists in internet debates:

"Person who lacks belief in gods"​
...

The trouble with both those definitions is that they are written from the point of view of a theist. Neither reject that there is a god they merely state that atheists reject or lack a belief rather than rejecting the god itself.

The way of getting around the bog is by not giving into this theist based definitions and instead giving an explanation of atheism is this manner.

That strikes me as a distinction without difference, not to mention the fact that I am an atheist and came up with the second definition. If one rejects belief in gods, that is tantamount to rejecting gods themselves. My only problem with the first definition is that it is ambiguous and thus a bad definition. Both are descriptions of word usage and do not depend on the religious perspective of the person who created them.

No theist has ever managed to provide empirical evidence of a god. Nor has any theist ever managed to even provide a rational reason for a god. Therefor what reason do i have to consider this god to be anything other than a work of fiction.

If a theist has a problem with this definition then the solution is simple. The onus is on them to demonstrate that the definition is wrong by providing either evidence or a good reason.

What you are saying doesn't make any sense. We have lots of words that refer to fictional and mythical entities. Gods are not the only ones. Definitions don't promote belief or disbelief in the existence of entities. They simply allow users of the definitions to understand how the words are used by speakers of a language. It is up to theists and atheists to make the case for their opinions about gods.
 
That strikes me as a distinction without difference, not to mention the fact that I am an atheist and came up with the second definition. If one rejects belief in gods, that is tantamount to rejecting gods themselves. My only problem with the first definition is that it is ambiguous and thus a bad definition. Both are descriptions of word usage and do not depend on the religious perspective of the person who created them....

The above paragraph contained an error that I couldn't correct, because my internet went out and the opportunity to edit is too brief here. By the time it came back, I could not edit the post. Basically, the references to "second definition" and "first definition" should be switched. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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For me I don't believe in any god and that's after ten years of catholic school.
 
Since it's clear there's very few "believers" here who understand what "atheist" means or what "atheism" is, I'm interested in hearing how people define those words.

In your own words, can you please post what you think "atheist" means?
Or, in your own words, can you please post what "atheism" means?

For example:

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, or gods.

or

An Atheist does not believe in a god or gods.


Which in now way, shape, or form says/states that an Atheist claims there is no god.
There's a difference between saying:

1) I don't believe in a god(s).

and

2) There is no god(s).


Now I'm sure there are some Atheists who might proclaim "There is no god.", but that's not most from what I've seen. It's a very select few.

Most will stop at making a declarative, non-provable statement like that.

The stance is more, "There's insufficient evidence of god(s), therefore I don't believe in them."

So tell me, how do you define "atheist" or "atheism"? (in your own words please)

Atheism is more than simply a lack of belief in god or gods. It is a positive belief that there are no gods. Put another way, it is a positive belief in a negative, that, as such, can never be proven. Atheism, then takes as much faith as theism.

Most of us, however we present ourselves to the world, are actually agnostics: We simply don't know. The true believer may go to church and pray and express gratitude for all god has given, but down deep inside he still is afraid of dying. Why is that? If god is going to give him another life in a better place, if he is going to get to see god in person, then death should be welcomed. The atheist, on the other hand, doesn't go to church and pray, but still stands logic on its head trying to prove a negative.
 
Atheism is more than simply a lack of belief in god or gods. It is a positive belief that there are no gods. Put another way, it is a positive belief in a negative, that, as such, can never be proven. Atheism, then takes as much faith as theism.

Nope. It is not a positive belief. We do not accept the claim that any kind of deity exists WITHOUT proof/evidence.

Is it a positive belief if you do not accept the claim that aliens exist and are here without proof/evidence?
 
Nope. It is not a positive belief. We do not accept the claim that any kind of deity exists WITHOUT proof/evidence.

Is it a positive belief if you do not accept the claim that aliens exist and are here without proof/evidence?

Aliens might exist. I don't know.
Gods might exist. I don't know.

If you have a positive belief that aliens don't exist, on what can you base that belief?

The agnostic doesn't accept a claim that god exists without proof, but still acknowledges that no one can prove that god does not exist. The atheist says that there is no god.
 
Aliens might exist. I don't know.
Gods might exist. I don't know.

If you have a positive belief that aliens don't exist, on what can you base that belief?

The agnostic doesn't accept a claim that god exists without proof, but still acknowledges that no one can prove that god does not exist. The atheist says that there is no god.

Agnostics do not acknowledge that nobody can prove that God does not exist. They ACCEPT the possibility that it may or may not exist.

We don't know if God exists nor do we care. We just reject the claim.
 
Agnostics do not acknowledge that nobody can prove that God does not exist. They ACCEPT the possibility that it may or may not exist.

We don't know if God exists nor do we care. We just reject the claim.

If you're really an atheist, then you don't acknowledge that god or gods might exist even though there is no evidence for him/her/them.

It's like your aliens metaphor: There is no credible evidence that they exist, but they might. If you say, "Oh, no, there simply is no such thing as aliens," then that's making a positive statement about a negative. If you acknowledge that they could possibly exist, then you have no positive belief that they don't.

If you admit that the existence of god or gods has never been disproved, which it never has nor ever could be, then you're an agnostic: You don't know. You might believe that they don't exist, but you don't know. That's the definition of agnostic.
 
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