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Did you ever really believe?

RooseveltTruman said:
First of all, God, Heaven, and Hell don't exist, so I can't really prove anything about them. By the way, what's wrong with the source I provided? It lists various Bible verses that show that the Bible preaches eternal torment for non-believers. Anyway, the Bible's inconsistent on just about everything, so I'm sure you can find a Bible verse of two to contradict it. That vile, nasty book is more of a Rorschach test than anything else. You see in it what you want to see in it. What's your interpretation of Hell?
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I see the truth...how about you...are you able to look beyond agendas and see the truth, too?
 
Elvira said:
I see the truth...how about you...are you able to look beyond agendas and see the truth, too?
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Not if your finding it in a book written by people who had no clue that the earth orbited the sun or rotated on its axis, had no idea about germ theory or that there was a continent on the bottom of the earth, which they probably did not even know was round.
 
calamity said:
Not if your finding it in a book written by people who had no clue that the earth orbited the sun or rotated on its axis, had no idea about germ theory or that there was a continent on the bottom of the earth, which they probably did not even know was round.
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So where do you look?
 
Elvira said:
So where do you look?
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Something 21st century; preferably backed up by observation and correlating to mathematical theory.
 
Logicman said:
I've come to the realization that a great many atheists have a screw loose, especially the ones who hang around religious threads wasting time trying to convince Christians that their religious beliefs are bogus. The atheist's end game is being cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8) as a reward for their monumental stupidity.
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Thank you for a fine example of Christian charity. I did not know that the bible advocated eternal punishment for those with a low IQ.
 
Elvira said:
I see the truth...how about you...are you able to look beyond agendas and see the truth, too?
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I really don't think a book that preaches literal genocide (1 Samuel 15:3) and is mighty inconsistent with its own theology is "the truth." I have my biases, like any person, but I don't get my morals from a Bronze Age text.
 
RooseveltTruman said:
I really don't think a book that preaches literal genocide (1 Samuel 15:3) and is mighty inconsistent with its own theology is "the truth." I have my biases, like any person, but I don't get my morals from a Bronze Age text.
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Is that what the Christian Greek Scriptures preach? No, I think not...
 
RooseveltTruman said:
So, the Old Testament doesn't matter? Jesus thought it did. Just out of curiosity, what denomination of Christianity do you belong to?
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The Hebrew Scriptures were written directly for the Israelites...the Christian Greek Scriptures were written directly for Christians...I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses...
 
Elvira said:
The Hebrew Scriptures were written directly for the Israelites...the Christian Greek Scriptures were written directly for Christians...I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses...
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How can scriptures be written directly for people of a certain faith when these people supposedly derive their faith from the scriptures?
 
Elvira said:
The Hebrew Scriptures were written directly for the Israelites...the Christian Greek Scriptures were written directly for Christians...I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses...
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Is there any Biblical evidence that the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore? The links I provided in my earlier post said that it's still relevant for Christians (could it be that the Bible is wildly inconsistent?). Also, genocide is genocide. The God of the Old Testament (who ordered one in 1 Samuel 15:3) is presumably the same of the New Testament, so He has some serious blood on His hands.
 
devildavid said:
How can scriptures be written directly for people of a certain faith when these people supposedly derive their faith from the scriptures?
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It takes discernment...
 
RooseveltTruman said:
Is there any Biblical evidence that the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore? The links I provided in my earlier post said that it's still relevant for Christians (could it be that the Bible is wildly inconsistent?). Also, genocide is genocide. The God of the Old Testament (who ordered one in 1 Samuel 15:3) is presumably the same of the New Testament, so He has some serious blood on His hands.
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The Mosaic Law has purpose...it proves to imperfect man how much we need a Messiah because there is no way way we can fulfill the perfect law of God, being imperfect...the Law upheld Jehovah’s standard of holiness...primarily, it taught the Israelites of their need for the Messiah, who would redeem them from their sinful state...Galatians 3:24..the Law also taught godly fear and obedience, and it helped Israel to keep separate from the corrupt practices of the surrounding nations...Leviticus 18:24, 25...

The purpose of the new covenant laid out in the NT or Christian Greek Scriptures...Jeremiah 31:31-34...is to produce a nation of kings and priests to bless all mankind....Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 5:10...
 
Elvira said:
The Mosaic Law has purpose...it proves to imperfect man how much we need a Messiah because there is no way way we can fulfill the perfect law of God, being imperfect...the Law upheld Jehovah’s standard of holiness...primarily, it taught the Israelites of their need for the Messiah, who would redeem them from their sinful state...Galatians 3:24..the Law also taught godly fear and obedience, and it helped Israel to keep separate from the corrupt practices of the surrounding nations...Leviticus 18:24, 25...

The purpose of the new covenant laid out in the NT or Christian Greek Scriptures...Jeremiah 31:31-34...is to produce a nation of kings and priests to bless all mankind....Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 5:10...
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Okay, so the Bible is divided on the issue on whether the Old Testament still matters. What about the whole God-orders-genocide thing? Is God a war criminal?
 
RooseveltTruman said:
Okay, so the Bible is divided on the issue on whether the Old Testament still matters. What about the whole God-orders-genocide thing? Is God a war criminal?
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Considering the perfect law, what right does anyone have to live, considering we are all offspring of sinful Adam and Eve? Absolutely none...only by the grace of God were Adam and Eve allowed to produce offspring after they sinned...God gives life, God has the right to take life...it is His to give or take...
 
Elvira said:
Considering the perfect law, what right does anyone have to live, considering we are all offspring of sinful Adam and Eve? Absolutely none...only by the grace of God were Adam and Eve allowed to produce offspring after they sinned...God gives life, God has the right to take life...it is His to give or take...
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So, God is above morality? What if He ordered some people to commit genocide nowadays? Is He still capable of ordering mass slaughter or did He change? Isn't that the kind of thinking that causes people to fly airplanes into towers? Also, what do you mean by "only by the grace of God were Adam and Eve allowed to produce offspring after they sinned"? Wouldn't it be better for everyone if mankind stopped with Adam and Eve, so no more humans were born into this mind-bogglingly cruel and brutal world? Also, creating more humans just creates more potential souls to burn in Hell (I know that you don't believe in a literal Hell, but many [most?] Christians do). My antinatalism is rearing its head, isn't it?
 
RooseveltTruman said:
So, God is above morality? What if He ordered some people to commit genocide nowadays? Is He still capable of ordering mass slaughter or did He change? Isn't that the kind of thinking that causes people to fly airplanes into towers? Also, what do you mean by "only by the grace of God were Adam and Eve allowed to produce offspring after they sinned"? Wouldn't it be better for everyone if mankind stopped with Adam and Eve, so no more humans were born into this mind-bogglingly cruel and brutal world? Also, creating more humans just creates more potential souls to burn in Hell (I know that you don't believe in a literal Hell, but many [most?] Christians do). My antinatalism is rearing its head, isn't it?
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Why would it be better? Are you not thankful to be alive, even though being in a sinful state and being allowed the gift of salvation? I know I am ...it sure beats the alternative...
 
RooseveltTruman said:
That's awfully convoluted. It's not really a very good plan. Billions of people end up being tortured in Hell in unimaginably cruel ways for all eternity so God can elevate the Elect? God either predestines or allows Satan to destroy the paradise that is the Garden of Eden so Adam and Eve can acquire knowledge of good and evil? Why not just allow mankind to be like God without causing total depravity? God makes all the rules, he could've done that if he wanted to. Why not just cut out the whole life-on-Earth thing and skip straight to life in Heaven? If the life-on-Earth part is necessary, why make it so mind-blowingly unpleasant and nasty with the possibility of an even worse fate in Hell? Why create anything at all? Has God ever done anything nice for the people of Earth, other than killing His son so a teeny-tiny Elect can go to Heaven?
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Wow. You're missing it.

Let me ask you something: How would YOU - Roosevelt Truman - create man so that he has FREE WILL and not allow him to do evil if he chooses? Do you create him in heaven perfect so he doesn't sin? Congratulations, you've just created a robot without free will.

And for the record, God's salvation is available to EVERYBODY (John 3:16, etc.). Do you understand that?
 
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RooseveltTruman said:
Is there any Biblical evidence that the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore? The links I provided in my earlier post said that it's still relevant for Christians (could it be that the Bible is wildly inconsistent?). Also, genocide is genocide. The God of the Old Testament (who ordered one in 1 Samuel 15:3) is presumably the same of the New Testament, so He has some serious blood on His hands.
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It's divine justice, not genocide.

Liberals and progressive don't like justice much. They prefer to let illegal alien criminals and murderers cross into the United States and take refuge in sanctuary cities so they can't be brought to justice. Then they kill Americans. That's how screwed up progressives are. And then they call God crazy? Wow!
 
Logicman said:
Wow. You're missing it.

Let me ask you something: How would YOU - Roosevelt Truman - create man so that he has FREE WILL and not allow him to do evil if he chooses? Do you create him in heaven perfect so he doesn't sin? Congratulations, you've just created a robot without free will.

And for the record, God's salvation is available to EVERYBODY (John 3:16, etc.). Do you understand that?
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If I were God I wouldn't create mankind at all. There's no point in doing so. If I were to create humankind, I certainly would not have done it the way God did. Also, God's salvation is only for the predestined Elect, according to the Bible (source). He saves who wants to and hardens the hearts of those He wants to damn to Hell (Romans 9:18). Free will doesn't exist.

Logicman said:
It's divine justice, not genocide.
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I'm pretty sure that murdering all the men, women, and children in a city counts as genocide. Are you comfortable with God ordering genocide? Would you commit genocidal acts if you believe that God told you to do so? He's done it in the past, according to the Bible.
 
RooseveltTruman said:
If I were God I wouldn't create mankind at all. There's no point in doing so. If I were to create humankind, I certainly would not have done it the way God did. Also, God's salvation is only for the predestined Elect, according to the Bible (source). He saves who wants to and hardens the hearts of those He wants to damn to Hell (Romans 9:18). Free will doesn't exist.
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Yes, free will does exist, and salvation can be had by anyone (John 3:16). Even the Bible says to make a choice.

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." - Deuteronomy 30:19

If people wind up in Hell it will be for cursing and mocking God and failing to receive Christ as their Savior. It will be their CHOICE to suffer in Hell.
 
Logicman said:
Yes, free will does exist, and salvation can be had by anyone (John 3:16). Even the Bible says to make a choice.

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." - Deuteronomy 30:19

If people wind up in Hell it will be for cursing and mocking God and failing to receive Christ as their Savior. It will be their CHOICE to suffer in Hell.
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:lol:
 
Logicman said:
It's divine justice, not genocide.

Liberals and progressive don't like justice much. They prefer to let illegal alien criminals and murderers cross into the United States and take refuge in sanctuary cities so they can't be brought to justice. Then they kill Americans. That's how screwed up progressives are. And then they call God crazy? Wow!
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Wow is right but you’re wrong about why.
 
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