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Did you ever really believe?

Idiometer said:
You have no such thing. You have stories told by human beings. That isn't evidence.
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Be consistent now. Go to your bookshelf and throw all your ancient history books in the trash. Caesar, Attila the Hun, Socrates, all of those. Into your dumpster.

Idiometer said:
The very earliest of your New Testament gospels is Mark, which wasn't written until about 90 or so years after the death of the man you call Jesus. Either none of the gospel writers were really there at the time, or they lived a LOT longer than human beings have ever lived.
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That's bizarre. Here's the real dates of the writings of the Gospels, by scores of scholars who have actually studied the datings:

A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

72 scholars date Mark as being written 29 years after the death of Jesus - well within the human lifespan.

By the way, I have a degree in science so save your links for someone else. I'm not a believer in a 6,000 year old earth.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
The is no evidence supporting the resurrection except ancient hearsay.
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Most of history is hearsay.

Be consistent now. Go to your bookshelf and throw all your ancient history books in the trash. Caesar, Attila the Hun, Socrates, all of those. Into your dumpster.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Graves of just some saints?

That translation isn't the norm.

Regardless, none of the other gospel writers noted any of this, whether natural (earthquake) or supernatural (dead people raised alive).
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Well, here is the Bible in Living English version..."and the tombs opened and many bodies of holy men who had gone to their rest rose,"

And the American Standard version..."and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;"

Granted, some translations say "raised to life" but that is not what the original Greek says...it simply says" bodies" "were raised up"...

and τὰ the μνημεῖα memorial tombs ἀνεῴχθησαν were opened καὶ and πολλὰ many σώματα bodies
τῶν of the κεκοιμημένων having fallen asleep ἁγίων holy (ones) ἠγέρθησαν, were raised up,
 
Point to ponder....

This is no belief, per se. It's more like some crazy ****-eyed idea I got watching Ancient Aliens.

Given these 2 facts.....

1. There has always been some sort of religious beliefs, practices, doctrine, etc., for as long as mankind has been writing **** down.
2. Religions seem to evolve or totally re-invent itself, throughout history, every 2-3 thousand years. (I'm guessing. Work with me here.)

Could we not reasonably assume that there is some sort of unexplainable obsession in the nature of man to worship or seek a higher being, often, spiritual in nature. A hardwired gene perhaps? Part of our D.N.A. It does, after all, defy logic. Why has it always been there since forever?

Perhaps it's the part of our D.N.A. that was infused into humanoids by "the gods" that history records visiting us from the heavens?

That Gene/D.N.A./Whatever that turns our spirits towards the supreme being in the heavens, much like a salmon is genetically hardwired to return to their place of birth to spawn?

Being unable to explain, perhaps mankind creates it's own dieties, beliefs, etc., just to exercize, and pacify, that instinctive desire/drive, within us, to get back home?

View attachment 67250796

Is it possible?
 
Logicman said:
Focus on one resurrection, dox - Christ. Try to make that one go away. So far you've failed badly at that.
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Okay, let's go back to that resurrection.

Unproven.

Evidence, such as there is, exists only in the bible, in books written by unknown authors. There are no manuscripts in the language spoken by the people described in those books. That makes it hearsay - recordings of oral traditions with at least one translation required.

We have been over this. The pop apologeics you reference can't, in the end, produce anything but the bible as proof.
 
Logicman said:
Most of history is hearsay.

Be consistent now. Go to your bookshelf and throw all your ancient history books in the trash. Caesar, Attila the Hun, Socrates, all of those. Into your dumpster.
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None of those characters claim to be god. Bad analogy rejected.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Okay, let's go back to that resurrection.

Unproven.

Evidence, such as there is, exists only in the bible, in books written by unknown authors. There are no manuscripts in the language spoken by the people described in those books. That makes it hearsay - recordings of oral traditions with at least one translation required.

We have been over this. The pop apologeics you reference can't, in the end, produce anything but the bible as proof.
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That's nonsense. Authors are known. You just kick them to the curb.

Multiple independent verifications. Changed lives of the disciples. And all you have are denials.
 
Logicman said:
Good question! And here's your answer from the link below:

"If the garden is a sanctified, holy area, one would think that God would have the sovereign power and desire to keep it that way. Unless, of course, there was a divine purpose involved for Satan to be there. And what would that purpose be? To tempt Adam into the fall so that man would come into the knowledge of good and evil, overcome it through the power Of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, and be raised complete in the image and likeness of God. Man cannot be an overcomer until he has something to overcome, like sin and Satan.

One other observation: Whereas Genesis 1:26 states that God was to create man in His own image and likeness, Genesis 1:27 shows that man was only created in God’s “image.” It wasn’t until Genesis 3:22 when Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he became “like” God.

To Summarize:

1. Man was to be created in the likeness and image of God (Genesis 1:26).

2. Part of this “likeness” was a knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22)

3. For Adam to be truly “like” God, he had to acquire a knowledge of evil.

4. The means to that end was eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

5. To do that a “tempter” was likely needed to entice Adam into sin.

6. God provided, or allowed, Satan as the tempter.

7. God knew in advance what the outcome would be, but allowed it anyway.

8. God knew atonement would be required, and provided Jesus Christ as the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth” (Revelation 13:8).

9. Man achieves the likeness of God, acquires a knowledge of and overcomes evil, partakes of Christ, and is reunited in paradise with God. Man is now an overcomer with a keen knowledge of evil.

The key to all this remains, “Is acquiring a knowledge of good and evil a prerequisite to coming into the likeness and image of God? If the answer is yes, I think Adam has to eat from that tree, and God has to make it happen. If the answer is no, then I think you have to look back to Genesis 3:22 and reconcile that with Genesis 1:26, explaining how Adam is “like” God, but at the same time lacks a knowledge of good and evil. Also, how does man acquire that knowledge without eating of the fruit of that tree?"

Satan in the Garden of Eden << The Righter Report
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That's awfully convoluted. It's not really a very good plan. Billions of people end up being tortured in Hell in unimaginably cruel ways for all eternity so God can elevate the Elect? God either predestines or allows Satan to destroy the paradise that is the Garden of Eden so Adam and Eve can acquire knowledge of good and evil? Why not just allow mankind to be like God without causing total depravity? God makes all the rules, he could've done that if he wanted to. Why not just cut out the whole life-on-Earth thing and skip straight to life in Heaven? If the life-on-Earth part is necessary, why make it so mind-blowingly unpleasant and nasty with the possibility of an even worse fate in Hell? Why create anything at all? Has God ever done anything nice for the people of Earth, other than killing His son so a teeny-tiny Elect can go to Heaven?
 
RooseveltTruman said:
That's awfully convoluted. It's not really a very good plan. Billions of people end up being tortured in Hell in unimaginably cruel ways for all eternity so God can elevate the Elect? God either predestines or allows Satan to destroy the paradise that is the Garden of Eden so Adam and Eve can acquire knowledge of good and evil? Why not just allow mankind to be like God without causing total depravity? God makes all the rules, he could've done that if he wanted to. Why not just cut out the whole life-on-Earth thing and skip straight to life in Heaven? If the life-on-Earth part is necessary, why make it so mind-blowingly unpleasant and nasty with the possibility of an even worse fate in Hell? Why create anything at all? Has God ever done anything nice for the people of Earth, other than killing His son so a teeny-tiny Elect can go to Heaven?
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Prove it...chapter and verse...
 
Logicman said:
I've come to the realization that a great many atheists have a screw loose, especially the ones who hang around religious threads wasting time trying to convince Christians that their religious beliefs are bogus. The atheist's end game is being cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8) as a reward for their monumental stupidity.
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:lamo
 
Captain America said:
Point to ponder....

This is no belief, per se. It's more like some crazy ****-eyed idea I got watching Ancient Aliens.

Given these 2 facts.....

1. There has always been some sort of religious beliefs, practices, doctrine, etc., for as long as mankind has been writing **** down.
2. Religions seem to evolve or totally re-invent itself, throughout history, every 2-3 thousand years. (I'm guessing. Work with me here.)

Could we not reasonably assume that there is some sort of unexplainable obsession in the nature of man to worship or seek a higher being, often, spiritual in nature. A hardwired gene perhaps? Part of our D.N.A. It does, after all, defy logic. Why has it always been there since forever?

Perhaps it's the part of our D.N.A. that was infused into humanoids by "the gods" that history records visiting us from the heavens?

That Gene/D.N.A./Whatever that turns our spirits towards the supreme being in the heavens, much like a salmon is genetically hardwired to return to their place of birth to spawn?

Being unable to explain, perhaps mankind creates it's own dieties, beliefs, etc., just to exercize, and pacify, that instinctive desire/drive, within us, to get back home?

View attachment 67250796

Is it possible?
Click to expand...

There's something called the "God gene" which may be what you were wondering about!

Experimenting with Spirituality: Analyzing The God Gene in a Nonmajors Laboratory Course
 
Logicman said:
That's nonsense. Authors are known. You just kick them to the curb.

Multiple independent verifications. Changed lives of the disciples. And all you have are denials.
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Nope. The gospels were not actually written by the apostles they are named after.
 
Elvira said:
Prove what you claim the Bible says...
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Which parts? The part about billions being tortured in Hell? Well, the only way to get into Heaven is by accepting Jesus as your personal savior (John 14:6). There are billions of people on Earth, but only about a third or so are Christians, so billions of people go to Hell. This source offers plenty of Bible verses about eternal punishment in Hell.
 
Elvira said:
Actually, there is a logical explanation for that...no miracle involved...a violent earthquake occurs, splitting rocks..it is so powerful that tombs outside Jerusalem break open and corpses are thrown out of them...passersby who see the dead bodies exposed enter the city and report what they just witnessed.​..Matthew 12:11; 27:51-53...



Matthew Study Notes—Chapter 27 — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
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And, even with that 'normal physical explination', there is no evidence to show that it happeneed. There is no physical evidence, and no actual accounts that it happened outside the very writings that are being quesitoned.
 
RooseveltTruman said:
Which parts? The part about billions being tortured in Hell? Well, the only way to get into Heaven is by accepting Jesus as your personal savior (John 14:6). There are billions of people on Earth, but only about a third or so are Christians, so billions of people go to Hell. This source offers plenty of Bible verses about eternal punishment in Hell.
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Yeah, that...not what some blog says but what the Bible says...prove it...
 
Elvira said:
Yeah, that...not what some blog says but what the Bible says...prove it...
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Who cares what some book written by ignorant fools almost 5000 years ago had to say about anything?
 
calamity said:
Who cares what some book written by ignorant fools almost 5000 years ago had to say about anything?
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Only those who are questioning it in the first place, that's who...
 
Elvira said:
Yeah, that...not what some blog says but what the Bible says...prove it...
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First of all, God, Heaven, and Hell don't exist, so I can't really prove anything about them. By the way, what's wrong with the source I provided? It lists various Bible verses that show that the Bible preaches eternal torment for non-believers. Anyway, the Bible's inconsistent on just about everything, so I'm sure you can find a Bible verse of two to contradict it. That vile, nasty book is more of a Rorschach test than anything else. You see in it what you want to see in it. What's your interpretation of Hell?
 
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