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[W:103]The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

You didn't address the question. Do you personally have a problem with homosexuality or not?

I addressed it in the last sentence of the very post you responded to, but I will also provide a direct answer here.

Yes, I do believe that engaging in homosexuality is immoral behavior.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

And many read the Bible but lack understanding...like you...

I read what it says. You read what you think it should say.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

I read what it says. You read what you think it should say.

No, you ad libbed part of it...
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Look again...Jehovah brought them together...Genesis 2:21-24...verse 24..."That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

Where is the wedding ceremony described? Eve couldn't help but be one with Adam because she was made from a piece of him. And you thought you needed a man and a woman to make more people. That's not what God did. The rib surgeons could have made a bundle.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

I addressed it in the last sentence of the very post you responded to, but I will also provide a direct answer here.

Yes, I do believe that engaging in homosexuality is immoral behavior.

Other than that, does it personally bother you?
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Where is the wedding ceremony described? Eve couldn't help but be one with Adam because she was made from a piece of him. And you thought you needed a man and a woman to make more people. That's not what God did. The rib surgeons could have made a bundle.

Um...the first mention of wife...that would be marriage...SMH...
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Um...the first mention of wife...that would be marriage...SMH...

Still, no marriage ceremony. Must have been a civil union.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Still, no marriage ceremony. Must have been a civil union.

I consider an arrangement ordained by Jehovah God the highest of marriage ceremonies...
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Where is the wedding ceremony described? Eve couldn't help but be one with Adam because she was made from a piece of him. And you thought you needed a man and a woman to make more people. That's not what God did. The rib surgeons could have made a bundle.

Every time that Adam came home from tending the fields Eve embraced him. It wasn't affection, she was counting his ribs.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Every time that Adam came home from tending the fields Eve embraced him. It wasn't affection, she was counting his ribs.

To see if another one was missing? Funny...:giggle1:
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

What I MEANT is that if you think the bible says homosexuality is a sin, then you should ALSO think the bible says heterosexuality is a sin.

That's how ridiculous it is.

Sure, it would be illogical to apply one conclusion (boooo homosexuality) and not the other one (boooo heterosexuality) [as orgies happen in both types of relationships]... but it's also illogical to apply both conclusions at once [not possible to reproduce] as well as to infer one conclusion or the other from the immorality of orgies [compositional error].

Obviously heterosexuality (at least one particular form of it) is okay by God, or else reproduction would be impossible (at least back in Biblical times). Homosexuality, on the other hand, can be debated [I'd argue that it is immoral].

Genesis 2:24 speaks of man leaving his father and mother to become one flesh (united) with his wife. [since woman was made from man].

Ephesians 5:22-33 speaks of the duties of wives to their husbands and husbands to their wives, referencing Genesis 2:24 [in an Earthly sense] while tying it in to the "bigger Christian picture" [in a Heavenly sense].

Matthew 19:4-6 speaks of God making them 'male and female' in the beginning, references the Genesis 2:24 passage, and adds that they are no longer two (but one) and that no man ought to separate what God has joined together.

1 Corinthians 7:1-16 also gives some relationship advice, directing that advice to husbands and wives, while specifying that each man should have his own wife and each wife her own husband.

Colossians 3:18-19 gives some advice to husbands and wives as well.

Romans 1:26-27 speaks of the depravity of mankind, and one example of that was men giving themselves up to other men, and women to other women...


Now, while I do believe homosexual behavior to be immoral, and that the behavior should be condemned, I also believe that homosexuals themselves should be loved and not condemned, as fellow sinners have no grounds to condemn another sinner (as they too will be judged by the same standard of perfection, and they too will fall short of that standard).
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Other than that, does it personally bother you?

I'm not sure precisely what you're asking me when you ask if I'm 'bothered' by it... I mean, in my own mind, it's disgusting [since I'm not in any way attracted to other men]. Is that what you mean by "bothered"? Or like if other people's desires have a direct effect on my life? I'd say that their desires don't directly affect me. They being them doesn't affect me being me, unless they were to direct their desires towards me, of which I would have to respectfully decline.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Now, while I do believe homosexual behavior to be immoral, and that the behavior should be condemned, I also believe that homosexuals themselves should be loved and not condemned, as fellow sinners have no grounds to condemn another sinner (as they too will be judged by the same standard of perfection, and they too will fall short of that standard).

Oh stop. You aren't loving someone when you judge them based on some twisted interpretation of something written in an ancient culture.

And by the way only ONE of your examples mentions homosexuality, and it was not from the OT or from the gospels. So there is no law, either from Moses or Jesus, against homosexuality.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Oh stop. You aren't loving someone when you judge them
This is precisely why I don't typically insert myself into discussions regarding this topic, especially on message boards such as this one... You seemingly are telling me that you know my heart better than I do, and are telling me that my love isn't "true" love... True Scotsman Fallacy (aka an Appeal to Purity). I am condemning the sin (not the person). I have no grounds to condemn the person, or else I would also be condemning myself.

The Bible teaches to love your neighbor (all people, even your enemies). It is definitely possible to love someone while condemning their sin. For example, I had a druggie slutty law breaking cousin pass away from a drug overdose a couple weeks ago. I hated her sins, but I still loved her as a person, and regularly prayed for her to turn her life around while being unhappy about her sins.

based on some twisted interpretation of something written in an ancient culture.
The origin of the teachings is irrelevant.

And by the way only ONE of your examples mentions homosexuality, and it was not from the OT or from the gospels. So there is no law, either from Moses or Jesus, against homosexuality.
Argument from Ignorance Fallacy.

I simply listed a few which immediately came to mind (The Genesis example was from the OT btw, and some NT passages directly reference that Genesis passage)... I'd have to dig a bit to find other instances... But for starters, Deuteronomy 24 speaks of marriage and divorce laws, and yet again, specifically speaks about man and woman (husband and wife)... it doesn't mention man/man nor woman/woman... There's also references comparing Earthly marriage to Heavenly marriage (husband and wife [his "bride"] with Jesus and The One True Church [his "bride"]).
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Now, while I do believe homosexual behavior to be immoral, and that the behavior should be condemned,

The earth's population has doubled since I was born. I don't know about you, but I'm kind of viewing homosexual "behavior" as arguably a greater good which contributes to an extended shelf-life of our species. It's in the nature of a species to find ways to gravitate towards equilibrium when competing for resources which become more and more limited. On the other hand, were our species to suddenly face a severe shortage in numbers, I would suspect that homosexuality would decrease exponentially on account of the collective desire to survive. Superstitious nomadic clans of the Bronze and Iron Ages probably felt the same way.


OM
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

The earth's population has doubled since I was born. I don't know about you, but I'm kind of viewing homosexual "behavior" as arguably a greater good which contributes to an extended shelf-life of our species. It's in the nature of a species to find ways to gravitate towards equilibrium when competing for resources which become more and more limited. On the other hand, were our species to suddenly face a severe shortage in numbers, I would suspect that homosexuality would decrease exponentially on account of the collective desire to survive. Superstitious nomadic clans of the Bronze and Iron Ages probably felt the same way.

OM

In that specific framework (long-term species survival), that's a fair argument. One could even argue that allowing/promoting homosexuality would be better (or more "moral") than allowing/promoting alternative solutions such as abortion, euthanizing the elderly, or imposing government control over reproduction/sex.

Given the framework which I operate under, I could not be in support of such a notion, but yet I can appreciate the reasoning behind it.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

This is precisely why I don't typically insert myself into discussions regarding this topic, especially on message boards such as this one... You seemingly are telling me that you know my heart better than I do, and are telling me that my love isn't "true" love... True Scotsman Fallacy (aka an Appeal to Purity). I am condemning the sin (not the person). I have no grounds to condemn the person, or else I would also be condemning myself.

The Bible teaches to love your neighbor (all people, even your enemies). It is definitely possible to love someone while condemning their sin. For example, I had a druggie slutty law breaking cousin pass away from a drug overdose a couple weeks ago. I hated her sins, but I still loved her as a person, and regularly prayed for her to turn her life around while being unhappy about her sins.


The origin of the teachings is irrelevant.


Argument from Ignorance Fallacy.

I simply listed a few which immediately came to mind (The Genesis example was from the OT btw, and some NT passages directly reference that Genesis passage)... I'd have to dig a bit to find other instances... But for starters, Deuteronomy 24 speaks of marriage and divorce laws, and yet again, specifically speaks about man and woman (husband and wife)... it doesn't mention man/man nor woman/woman... There's also references comparing Earthly marriage to Heavenly marriage (husband and wife [his "bride"] with Jesus and The One True Church [his "bride"]).

true the origin of a teaching is not relevant you judging others based on faith is why you fail to show love for them

yes when you judge others to suite yourself your loving yourself not others

maybe you feel actuel love for them to though praying that they will stop doing stuff that bothers you is not exactly a sign of love either
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

I consider an arrangement ordained by Jehovah God the highest of marriage ceremonies...

Still, no mention of a wedding ceremony. It wasn't an arrangement. It was god taking a piece of adam to create a companion, not a wife. It's all there in the myth.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Sure, it would be illogical to apply one conclusion (boooo homosexuality) and not the other one (boooo heterosexuality) [as orgies happen in both types of relationships]... but it's also illogical to apply both conclusions at once [not possible to reproduce] as well as to infer one conclusion or the other from the immorality of orgies [compositional error].

Obviously heterosexuality (at least one particular form of it) is okay by God, or else reproduction would be impossible (at least back in Biblical times). Homosexuality, on the other hand, can be debated [I'd argue that it is immoral].

Genesis 2:24 speaks of man leaving his father and mother to become one flesh (united) with his wife. [since woman was made from man].

Ephesians 5:22-33 speaks of the duties of wives to their husbands and husbands to their wives, referencing Genesis 2:24 [in an Earthly sense] while tying it in to the "bigger Christian picture" [in a Heavenly sense].

Matthew 19:4-6 speaks of God making them 'male and female' in the beginning, references the Genesis 2:24 passage, and adds that they are no longer two (but one) and that no man ought to separate what God has joined together.

1 Corinthians 7:1-16 also gives some relationship advice, directing that advice to husbands and wives, while specifying that each man should have his own wife and each wife her own husband.

Colossians 3:18-19 gives some advice to husbands and wives as well.

Romans 1:26-27 speaks of the depravity of mankind, and one example of that was men giving themselves up to other men, and women to other women...


Now, while I do believe homosexual behavior to be immoral, and that the behavior should be condemned, I also believe that homosexuals themselves should be loved and not condemned, as fellow sinners have no grounds to condemn another sinner (as they too will be judged by the same standard of perfection, and they too will fall short of that standard).

In the myth, God reproduced by making a man first and using his rib to make a companion. Making babies was god's punishment for women, not his preferred way to create humans.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

I'm not sure precisely what you're asking me when you ask if I'm 'bothered' by it... I mean, in my own mind, it's disgusting [since I'm not in any way attracted to other men]. Is that what you mean by "bothered"? Or like if other people's desires have a direct effect on my life? I'd say that their desires don't directly affect me. They being them doesn't affect me being me, unless they were to direct their desires towards me, of which I would have to respectfully decline.

Do you think there is anything wrong with it or says anything about a person's character as long as it is between consenting adults?
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

In the myth, God reproduced by making a man first and using his rib to make a companion. Making babies was god's punishment for women, not his preferred way to create humans.

Creating man was God's punishment to women...:2razz:
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

... On the other hand, were our species to suddenly face a severe shortage in numbers, I would suspect that homosexuality would decrease exponentially on account of the collective desire to survive. OM

... One could even argue that allowing/promoting homosexuality would be better (or more "moral") than allowing/promoting alternative solutions such as abortion, euthanizing the elderly, or imposing government control over reproduction/sex...

Sexuality does not work like that. :doh I can personally vouch for that.
 
Re: The Christian Religion and Homosexuality

Sexuality does not work like that. :doh I can personally vouch for that.
Yet, someone else can personally vouch for it working differently...

Some people are adamant about it not being a choice (not being able to change it) and other people are adamant about their once being homosexual but now being heterosexual (they were able to change it). Some people even claim to be bisexual (which could be used as supporting evidence that it indeed is controllable, but that argument could be rebutted as another example of a natural state of sexuality).

Homosexuality is a subject that I would be perfectly fine with discussing on an intellectual level, such as how Omega Man seems willing to discuss it, but many others immediately resort to intense emotions/anger/hate/etc. and that's when I tend to grow uninterested in discussion.
 
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