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[W: 344][W:64]Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

veritas1 said:
Because you don't know squat and can't engage in any type of real debate. Your mission is to derail and wreck threads while you attack others.
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What does it profit a man, should he try and actually attempt to debate Veritas1 but lose his mind in boredom?

You've never once debated anything here that I've seen. Why pretend that you have?

Why did you lie about that last post being your last reply?

"This will be the last. I dare you to never respond to me again in here. I'll bet anything you can't do it. You've got the itch."
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
So quote a difficult passage. There is only one reason why you can't.
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Why. so you can run to some skeptic website and paste some answer to it? No thanks.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Tanngrisnir said:
Odd how he's never heard of Christ exhorting others to turn the other cheek, amongst other things.
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And he's supposed to love us. If he'd read the Bible he would know that.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Tanngrisnir said:
What does it profit a man, should he try and actually attempt to debate Veritas1 but lose his mind in boredom?

You've never once debated anything here that I've seen. Why pretend that you have?

Why did you lie about that last post being your last reply?

"This will be the last. I dare you to never respond to me again in here. I'll bet anything you can't do it. You've got the itch."
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I debate people honestly interested in debate as opposed to polemics. That is not you.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

veritas1 said:
Why. so you can run to some skeptic website and paste some answer to it? No thanks.
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Nope, I would respond to it. Go ahead and pick a passage and I promise that I won't copy/pasta. The floor is yours.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

veritas1 said:
I debate people honestly interested in debate as opposed to polemics. That is not you.
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You don't seem to know how to debate. You have the same approach as Logicman.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

First we need proof of the existence of this Christian salvation.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

veritas1 said:
I debate people honestly interested in debate as opposed to polemics. That is not you.
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In order to post that, you had to lie. Just like you did here:

"This will be the last. I dare you to never respond to me again in here. I'll bet anything you can't do it. You've got the itch."
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

What are we supposed to be saved from? Stories that would scare a small child? I'm fine and perfectly safe.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

veritas1 said:
People spend a lifetime studying it. Reading and understanding are not synonymous.
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And, reading and understanding does not mean that it's the truth to begin with.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
Provide an intellectually challenging quote.
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"And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." -1 Corinthians 14:32-35

Question: Which women, particularly, was Paul speaking of?


OM
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
"And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." -1 Corinthians 14:32-35

Question: Which women, particularly, was Paul speaking of?


OM
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The oppressed ones. The victims of male chauvinism. Paul was a misogynist.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Misogyny was not restricted to Christianity

In the tale of Sudinna, a young monk breaks his vows of celibacy after his old parents beg him to give his wife, whom he had abandoned, a child so that his family lineage may continue. When this is revealed, the Buddha admonishes him thus: “It is better for you to have put your manhood in the mouth of a venomous snake or a pit of burning charcoal than a woman.”
In one conversation, the Buddha states, “Of all the scents that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the tastes that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the voices that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the caresses that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman.”
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
The oppressed ones. The victims of male chauvinism. Paul was a misogynist.
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Incorrect. The Church of Corinth was just to the north of the Gulf of Corinth, across the Corinth Canal on the Attic peninsula. As such, it was situated in direct proximity to Delphi, stronghold of Greek pagan resistance to fledgling Christianity. The pagan women of Delphi, under Hellenistic influence, were renowned for their gibberish chanting and babbling within the Temple of Apollo. As Christianity was in a fledgling state, this church was obviously comprised of recent converts. In a nutshell, Paul was imploring the Greek men to silence their blathering wives, who in turn were still accustomed to their old pagan religious practices. So as you can see, this was addressed to specific members of a specific church, and not necessarily a chauvinistic mandate for all women everywhere. Taking this into context, might you agree that this particular passage could be considered intellectually challenging?


OM
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
Incorrect. The Church of Corinth was just to the north of the Gulf of Corinth, across the Corinth Canal on the Attic peninsula. As such, it was situated in direct proximity to Delphi, stronghold of Greek pagan resistance to fledgling Christianity. The pagan women of Delphi, under Hellenistic influence, were renowned for their gibberish chanting and babbling within the Temple of Apollo. As Christianity was in a fledgling state, this church was obviously comprised of recent converts. In a nutshell, Paul was imploring the Greek men to silence their blathering wives, who in turn were still accustomed to their old pagan religious practices. So as you can see, this was addressed to specific members of a specific church, and not necessarily a chauvinistic mandate for all women everywhere. Taking this into context, might you agree that this particular passage could be considered intellectually challenging?


OM
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What is intellectual about "silencing blathering wives". It's sexist, not intellectual.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
What is intellectual about "silencing blathering wives". It's sexist, not intellectual.
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You asked for intellectually challenging scripture. And as evidenced by your apparently not understanding it's historical (vs ideological) context, I in turn provided it for you.


OM
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

How can those who claim that salvation is by faith alone be sure that their faith is genuine, when they are certain that without it they can't be saved? It is faith because it has to be, based on what their doctrine tells them, rather than faith that is naturally occurring. If one knows there is only one way to salvation, one is not apt to examine it too closely out of fear to find it is not genuine.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Moderator's Warning:
The who's lying/smart/able to debate and etc. personal comments to each other need to end right here. This is the second warning about personal snark. Stick to the topic going forward please or plan on consequences.
 
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Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
You asked for intellectually challenging scripture. And as evidenced by your apparently not understanding it's historical (vs ideological) context, I in turn provided it for you.


OM
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I didn't get any intellectually challenging scripture.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
I didn't get any intellectually challenging scripture.
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Sure it was. You didn't even understand the proper context, and instead allowed your reflexes to reply. By description, an intellectual challenge.


OM
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
Sure it was. You didn't even understand the proper context, and instead allowed your reflexes to reply. By description, an intellectual challenge.


OM
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It wasn't much of a challenge.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

zyzygy said:
It wasn't much of a challenge.
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...and yet your resorting to a reflexive response in the face of not understanding the broader historical context demonstrates otherwise. :)


OM
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
...and yet your resorting to a reflexive response in the face of not understanding the broader historical context demonstrates otherwise. :)


OM
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I disagree.
 
Re: Salvation by Faith vs. Salvation by Works

Omega Man said:
Sure it was. You didn't even understand the proper context, and instead allowed your reflexes to reply. By description, an intellectual challenge.


OM
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The problem is that the bible should stand on its own as a work of fiction. Readers should not be concerned with context. If it contains anything of value the words of the story need to carry that.
 
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