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Your thoughts on Agnostics

devildavid said:
Agnostic theism is a form of theism, if it exists. It is not agnosticism.
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Since agnosticism is only about knowledge, not belief, then all agnostics must be either theists or atheists.

In answer to the question “Do you believe X?” The only two possible answers are yes or no.
You can’t say you don’t know what your own beliefs are.
 
pinqy said:
Since agnosticism is only about knowledge, not belief, then all agnostics must be either theists or atheists...
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That's a good point.


Also any group who defines themselves with regard to their relationship with god MUST have a view as to whether that god exists.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
I was a agnostic for almost twenty years. It was the common accepted part of me during the 1990's into the 2000's. At the end of the decade, I came to terms to be a atheist and I have no plans to change back. There is no problem with agnostics, because they are testing and retesting's religious faiths from different points of view. That is how I was during those times.
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But did you define yourself as a ab Agnostic purely because you didn't know if god exists ?


Because that's not what Agnosticism means.
 
Rich2018 said:
That's a good point.


Also any group who defines themselves with regard to their relationship with god MUST have a view as to whether that god exists.
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Sort of. Not believing X is true is NOT the same as believing X is false.
Does not accepting a proposition constitute a viewpoint in itself?
 
Rich2018 said:
But did you define yourself as a ab Agnostic purely because you didn't know if god exists ?


Because that's not what Agnosticism means.
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There is a number of people saying what is a agnostic and what is not a agnostic. If we start to go down the road were we are rejecting people who are agnostic because of a person saying otherwise. Then we are no more different then Christians that say who is a Christian and who is not a Christian. When I was a agnostic, I did not believe in a god nor did I trust in a god -- my judgment was that I did not have enough evidence to say one way or the other. I tested and tested again different faiths of Christians. I really did not test other religions as I did not support them. I did not know for sure that god existed.

Over time, I built up enough evidence to say there is no god. Not the Christian god or any other god of different religions. In my judgment, god is made up by man for the small elite group that controls the dialog.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
When I was a agnostic, I did not believe in a god nor did I trust in a god --
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That’s the definition of an atheist.

my judgment was that I did not have enough evidence to say one way or the other.
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And that’s the definition of an agnostic

Agnostics are also either theists or atheists.

Over time, I built up enough evidence to say there is no god. Not the Christian god or any other god of different religions. In my judgment, god is made up by man for the small elite group that controls the dialog.
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How could you have evidence to say that Deist god (one that does not interact with the universe), or gods you’ve never heard of, or universe-as-god don’t exist?
 
pinqy said:
That’s the definition of an atheist.
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Many agnostics do not believe in a god. It is just, they do not have enough evidence to prove or disprove there is a god. You can be a agnostic, and you were raised as a Christian. You are debating with yourself and studying Christian values. Now, there are different religions and there are different gods. There are so many gods, the agnostic does not know all of them. A religious show comes on and talks about a different god. A agnostic can say -- I do not believe in that god.


Agnostics are also either theists or atheists.
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I was raised as a Southern Baptist, and I became a agnostic to disprove the religion of my childhood. That was simple. The hardest to disprove, was the teachings of the Catholic church. Catholics are more rational then Southern Baptists. Still, this is studying a theist god. Still, there are the gods of India. I have looked into this problem, and they are not theists. There are so many gods, I do not have time to study them all. Or, if I do study them, by understanding all of them -- I could never be a good agnostic of finally a atheist.




How could you have evidence to say that Deist god (one that does not interact with the universe), or gods you’ve never heard of, or universe-as-god don’t exist?
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Take the countless gods of India. There are more gods to study, and, not being in the country of India -- I do not have access to books to fully study them just to refute they are real in the first place. An American, can spend decades to study all there gods. My judgment, I spend time and years to disprove one type of god that has connections with the social and political life of the United States. That is the Christian god, and I am still studying that god from the unlimited following of that god. I am a atheist, and the god that I have studied, is the Christian god to refute. I am not going to spend years and decades to refute the gods of India, or, gods from different countries.
 
Rich2018 said:
Wait, are you trying to bring in "proof" into the debate ?



When it comes to god or gods, what can you or anyone "prove" ?
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Nothing, yet so many act as if they know the exact mind and urges of this "god". You included.
 
Rich2018 said:
No, I thought I made it clear that these were my thoughts - hence "I think"







You just put forward your personal thought...are you aware that just putting it forth doesn't make it so ?
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Yet my thoughts do not depend on the fantasies of others

As to what you think, only you can know that and should never try to indicate that others share your views.
 
Rich2018 said:
What's the difference between an entity with God like powers...and a god with god like powers ?


The thing that defines a god are god like powers.
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So the conquistadors were gods? Because to the Incas they had god like powers.
 
Quag said:
So the conquistadors were gods? Because to the Incas they had god like powers.
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Could the Conquistadors turn the planet Jupiter into a Sun and communicate with every human on the planet simultaneously and in their native tongue ?



So no, the Conquistadors did NOT have god like powers.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
...when I was a agnostic, I did not believe in a god nor did I trust in a god -- my judgment was that I did not have enough evidence to say one way or the other...
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A definition of an Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god or gods.


Not that he/she says that there is categorically no god but that that they find the arguments for the existence of god to be unconvincing.



You were an Atheist.
 
Rich2018 said:
I thought so.
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How about including the rest of the statement? Or did you just alter it because you cannot refute it?

Extremely dishonest of you, as is your take on this thread.
 
Rich2018 said:
Nor, does it appear, that they are burdened by facts.
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That would be your thoughts which seem to see only in one direction.

You appear to be getting desperate with all of y our attempted denials but no counter arguments.

Religiously pathetic.
 
Rich2018 said:
A definition of an Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god or gods.


Not that he/she says that there is categorically no god but that that they find the arguments for the existence of god to be unconvincing.



You were an Atheist.
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Today, I am a atheist. Years ago, I was a agnostic to a Christian god. When it was dealing with other gods I was never raised to support or not supported within the United States -- I was a atheist to those gods. I could study the gods of classical Greece, but, Zeus does not have people today being agnostic of atheist dealing with him. They are gods of myth.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Today, I am a atheist. Years ago, I was a agnostic to a Christian god. When it was dealing with other gods I was never raised to support or not supported within the United States -- I was a atheist to those gods. I could study the gods of classical Greece, but, Zeus does not have people today being agnostic of atheist dealing with him. They are gods of myth.
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All gods are gods of myth unless otherwise demonstrated.
 
Arjay81 said:
How about including the rest of the statement? Or did you just alter it because you cannot refute it?

Extremely dishonest of you, as is your take on this thread.
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How about making a sensible argument ?


"Nothing" seems to sum up what you have to say.
 
devildavid said:
All gods are gods of myth unless otherwise demonstrated.
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Even Zeus is a myth, but, there are still practicing members of the Greek gods. It is not so much with the practicing members, it is the political power of such groups.
 
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