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Your thoughts on Agnostics

How do you know that ?

If god spoke to you and you spoke back...and you had a conversation, would that not convince you that he exists ?

No one has presented any knowledge of any god for examination at least. I also don't know for an absolute fact that no one has any knowledge of Cthulhu. But I have no reason to think that they do. You're just desperate to get people to say things they aren't saying, aren't you?
 
I'm cool with agnostics. They don't just take make believe stuff and claim it is real. They are concerned with knowledge, which is refreshing.

Unless you are a fundamentalist agnostic. They can be annoying.
 
How can that be the case ?

A Gnostic is someone with knowledge of god.

An Agnostic is someone without that knowledge. It is not someone who rejects that knowledge of god is possible.



Again there are many personal opinion on what Agnosticism means, that is what it means to me.

The origin of agnostic is not in relation to gnostic religions.
 
We had one here that basically said nothing can be known period. He made angel look rational.

Oh, I was thinking of it more in terms of the gods question, not in the broadest sense. It seems to me many believers in god/religion/supernatural take that view of knowledge as well.
 
No one has presented any knowledge of any god for examination at least. I also don't know for an absolute fact that no one has any knowledge of Cthulhu. But I have no reason to think that they do. You're just desperate to get people to say things they aren't saying, aren't you?
Who the hell are you that anyone's personal introspective knowledge must have your imprimatur? How do you mount the high horse you ride with your head buried in the sand? Quite a trick.
 
Your thoughts on Agnostics
They're cool. Honest with others if not with themselves.
So-called New Atheists are the exceptions that prove the rule: agnostics who are dishonest with others as well as themselves.
A sorry lot, the latter.
 
An Agnostic is someone without knowledge of god...without the absolute certainty of his existence...BUT who is looking for it.


What is it with folks in this section of DP that makes them think they can just make up their own definitions of words????
 
What is it with folks in this section of DP that makes them think they can just make up their own definitions of words????
What is with the DP Ostrich Party that makes them think they know their asses from their elbows about anything outside the little hole in the sand their heads are buried in?
 
You mean the popular version.

By all means do so, but you'd be wrong.

Why do you get to decide what's right and what's wrong regarding the most widely known definition of a word???

Oxford dictionary:
agnostic
NOUN
A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

Cambridge dictionary:
agnostic
noun [ C ] US ​ /æɡˈnɑs·tɪk/

someone who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists
 
No, you cannot assume that something that is not demonstrated is so....

I did say "for the sake of argument"

But even if you don't want to do that, since you cannot categorically state that god does not exist, you have to concede that he might exist...even if the probability was minute


...that's back to being delusional. If that's your standard, then your standard has some serious, serious problems....

No it's not - see above
If you can't understand it, your ability to understand has serious, serious problems


...there are people who say that god is inherently beyond the knowledge of mankind....

Well then I will just limit my explanations to you, to the concepts of god generally agreed upon by Christians


...that doesn't mean they don't believe in gods anyhow, it means they do not think they can ever rationally discover any gods. There are plenty of people who think all gods are outside of human knowledge and still believe....

Then let's define an Agnostic with reference to the well known Christian god - which by coincidence is the same god that the early Gnostic church believed in


...if the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, then he can communicate and converse with a human on Earth. That doesn't make that a worthwhile assumption....

If it exists, then why not ?


...I have an evidence-based knowledge that my parents exist. I can prove it. I have direct, demonstrable, objectively verifiable evidence that they are, or were, real. Now do the same thing with any god....

So you don't believe that your parents exist, you KNOW that they exist
A Gnostic will claim to KNOW that god exists in the same way they you claim to know that your parents exist. That he'she has interacted with them. Whether or not you believe them is irrelevant.
That is what they believe and profess. That is what defines them.

What is so hard to understand ?
Is your comprehension having serious, serious problems ?



...do you get tired of being dishonest? Because nowhere did I say anything even remotely close to that....

Do you ever get tired of saying foolish things ?

So, let's be clear you accept that god MIGHT exist ??

So if god might exist, then he MIGHT decide to communicate with his believers

So when Gnostics profess to know go - that is KNOW he exists through personal contact, the MIGHT be right ?


Are you having trouble keeping up ?


...I provided the definition of the word delusion. Go back and re-read it.


I suspect I have a far stronger grasp of the English language than you do.

Go read what I said above.

To be clearer still are you saying that Gnostics are deluded as a matter of fact ?
Are you saying they cannot possibly interact with god ?


If so, please embarrass yourself and explain why.....
 
Why do you get to decide what's right and what's wrong regarding the most widely known definition of a word???

Oxford dictionary:


Cambridge dictionary:


That would be their definitions...as I said that is the popular view of an Agnostic. Someone who doesn't know if god exists.


However it is not grammatically correct for the reasons I explained.

To understand what an Agnostic truly is, you must first understand what a Gnostic is.

A Gnostic is someone with knowledge of god.

QED: An Agnostic is someone without that knowledge.


By those dictionary definitions, every Atheist is an Agnostic. And there is a difference - I've given my intertrepation of it.
You don't have to agree.
 
What is it with folks in this section of DP that makes them think they can just make up their own definitions of words????


What is it with some people who think only the standard definition of a theological term is correct.

On one definition of the word "belief" or "faith" can ever be accepted.


Why don't you go back to reading your new edition of Newspeak and drift off back to 1984 ?
 
I'm agnostic, but this is the only part of the OP definition that really applies to me:

...a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

I have seen no compelling evidence and absolutely no proof that any version of god exists, so you could say that I default to the atheist position, but it's really a little more complex. If I was that sure about it I wouldn't bother with these threads.

I think faith and spirituality can offer some positive things, though religiosity is also responsible for a great deal of "bad stuff".
 
No one has presented any knowledge of any god for examination at least. I also don't know for an absolute fact that no one has any knowledge of Cthulhu. But I have no reason to think that they do. You're just desperate to get people to say things they aren't saying, aren't you?


Can you not read.

Go back and read what I said and then re-think your response.

You're just embarrassing yourself now.
 
Why do you get to decide what's right and what's wrong regarding the most widely known definition of a word???

Oxford dictionary:


Cambridge dictionary:

Ummm, I don't qualify.

Okay, so what does that make me?
 
No one demonstrably has any knowledge about god. No one. So that definition of gnostic is empty.


Can you demonstrate any conversation you've had with your father ?

If your father told you that you conceived after he ate an banana split, how could you demonstrate that conversation to anyone ?


A Gnostic professes to have interested with god.

Whether you believe them is irrelevant.
 
What is it with folks in this section of DP that makes them think they can just make up their own definitions of words????


Oh and this thread is entitled "Your Thoughts on Agnostics"

Not "What I found on the internet"



The word means different things to different people.

I really don't care if you accept mine - your opinion is of no value to me.
 
Totally hip to agnostics. For the most part...dont know...dont care.

The only REAL problem I see with people that dont have a clearly defined belief system is that it often makes it more difficult to process grief, guilt, forgiveness, healing, etc.
 
Can you demonstrate any conversation you've had with your father?

I have some videos and taped recordings of some of our conversations.


OM
 
But even if you don't want to do that, since you cannot categorically state that god does not exist, you have to concede that he might exist...even if the probability was minute.

Yes, it is possible, in the realm of extreme possibilities, that some kind of god exists. Possible. Not likely. Not supported by any evidence of any kind. That's the position of the vast majority of atheists.

No it's not - see above
If you can't understand it, your ability to understand has serious, serious problems

What are you going on about? It is also not impossible that we all live in the Matrix. It is also not impossible that we are all part of someone's incredibly intricate dream. That doesn't mean that anyone has any reason to take those possibilities seriously and think that's actually what's going on. There is a big difference between "it might be conceivably true" and "this is a reasonable thing to think is actually true". Why can't you see that?

Well then I will just limit my explanations to you, to the concepts of god generally agreed upon by Christians

Why limit it to Christians? Because a lot of Christians, very vocal Christians, professional Christian apologists, take the position that I stated.

Then let's define an Agnostic with reference to the well known Christian god - which by coincidence is the same god that the early Gnostic church believed in

No, let's define agnostic as it is actually defined. Gnosis - knowledge. Add in the prefix a- and you have "without knowledge". That's what the word means. Do the Greek.

If it exists, then why not ?

*IF* it exists. And how do you determine *IF* it exists? Now apply that to Christianity.

So you don't believe that your parents exist, you KNOW that they exist

Because I have verifiable evidence that they do. When do you think you'll have that for your imaginary friend?

A Gnostic will claim to KNOW that god exists in the same way they you claim to know that your parents exist. That he'she has interacted with them. Whether or not you believe them is irrelevant.

Except I'm not claiming to know, I can prove that I do. When can any theist do that?
 
Can you demonstrate any conversation you've had with your father ?

If your father told you that you conceived after he ate an banana split, how could you demonstrate that conversation to anyone ?


A Gnostic professes to have interested with god.

Whether you believe them is irrelevant.

Actually yes. Video tape is a wonderful thing. Stop being absurd.
 
Yes, it is possible, in the realm of extreme possibilities, that some kind of god exists. Possible. Not likely. Not supported by any evidence of any kind. That's the position of the vast majority of atheists.



What are you going on about? It is also not impossible that we all live in the Matrix. It is also not impossible that we are all part of someone's incredibly intricate dream. That doesn't mean that anyone has any reason to take those possibilities seriously and think that's actually what's going on. There is a big difference between "it might be conceivably true" and "this is a reasonable thing to think is actually true". Why can't you see that?



Why limit it to Christians? Because a lot of Christians, very vocal Christians, professional Christian apologists, take the position that I stated.



No, let's define agnostic as it is actually defined. Gnosis - knowledge. Add in the prefix a- and you have "without knowledge". That's what the word means. Do the Greek.



*IF* it exists. And how do you determine *IF* it exists? Now apply that to Christianity.



Because I have verifiable evidence that they do. When do you think you'll have that for your imaginary friend?



Except I'm not claiming to know, I can prove that I do. When can any theist do that?

How do we determine that something is possible?
 
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