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[W:70]Science is Santa

devildavid said:
I think it is a minority of the entire population. Most people are not devoted to them or love them. And there's nothing wrong with that. Most people are using the humanities to facilitate meaning and really aren't looking for meaning. They are normal, and just like things that make them feel good and entertain them.
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I doubt that either of us has any definitive proof for our belief here. However, I will note that, according to statistics, half the population has a below average IQ so you might be onto something there.
 
devildavid said:
That you spend an inordinate amount of time playing with while professing to be deeper and wiser than the rest of us. The irony runs deep.
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You don't understand irony, not based on this post anyway.
 
devildavid said:
That you spend an inordinate amount of time playing with while professing to be deeper and wiser than the rest of us. The irony runs deep.
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I know, she's starting to follow me around. Apparently I have a new pet. :/
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.
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So you have never been to see a doctor, nor have you ever taken a family member to see a doctor? Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.
 
Re: Science is Santa

sangha said:
Then why do you that one merely gives us tools, while the other gives us something more important than tools?

According to what you are saying, at least as I understand it, they are equal in what they give us
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The humanities and the sciences are both equally entertainments -- in the sense that they pass the time and amuse us while our brief mysterious life rushes to its inevitable end.
But there is entertainment and then there is entertainment. That is to say, not all entertainment is equal in every sense.
All entertainment gives us pleasure of one sort or another, but some entertainment provides edification as well.
Edification is insight into the moral and intellectual values involved in the human condition.
The human condition is the set of factors comprising human existence in all its complex social, psychological, moral, aspirational, mortal situations and interactions -- the lived experience of everyday life lived between the poles of birth and death.
The humanities offer insight into the human condition, into the values involved in human existence, into the moral, aesthetic and aspirational themes of everyday life.
The sciences offer only insight into how the physical world works, into the mechanisms of physical interactions.
 
Re: Science is Santa

JustHanging said:
So you have never been to see a doctor, nor have you ever taken a family member to see a doctor? Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.
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This does not follow from the unimportance of physical life.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
This does not follow from the unimportance of physical life.
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How so? If physical life is unimportant, why would you see a doctor? Or take a family member to one?
 
Re: Science is Santa

JustHanging said:
Angel said:
JustHanging said:
So you have never been to see a doctor, nor have you ever taken a family member to see a doctor? Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.
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This does not follow from the unimportance of physical life.
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How so? If physical life is unimportant, why would you see a doctor? Or take a family member to one?
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You're assumption is that we don't attend to unimportant things, and this assumption on your part is false. That's how so.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
Well, asking reasonably of reasonable men apparently goes for naught.

I'm delighted science saved your life. Dogs save people's lives too.
Saving people's lives takes its meaning from the meaning of life, and as per the OP science does not give us that.
Science may save your life but it can't give meaning to the lives it saves.
That's what the OP is about.
Thank you for your passionate post, although you know what you can do with that "right wing religionists" spiel.
If you don't know who you're talking to, the Thumper Rule is in effect.

Namaste
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Is it possible to acknowledge and salvage many of the important reasons for and impulses behind religion, like a sense of meaning, comfort, a sense of community, etc....without succumbing to the worst parts of it, like superstitions, tribalism, bigotry, division, and magical thinking?

This interesting fellow seems to think so. Let me know what you think:
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
It's all entertainment, devildavid. That's the open secret of human civilization. The difference between people is the difference between entertainments.
What separates the men from the boys is entertainment.
What separates me from you is entertainment.
Science entertains you' art entertains me.
It's all entertainment, devildavid.
Maybe you learn something today.
That's entertainment too!
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I am alive because I have had my tonsils taken out.

I don't consider any bit of that entertainment.

I think it was medical science that saved my life.

I think that is more important than entertainment.
 
Re: Science is Santa

ataraxia said:
Is it possible to acknowledge and salvage many of the important reasons for and impulses behind religion, like a sense of meaning, comfort, a sense of community, etc....without succumbing to the worst parts of it, like superstitions, tribalism, bigotry, division, and magical thinking?

This interesting fellow seems to think so. Let me know what you think:
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"It's clear to me that religions are in the end too complex, interesting and on occasion wise to be abandoned simply to those who believe in them."
Alain de Botton, Religion for Atheists (2012)

I like de Botton. But I've only read his Proust book and cannot view Youtube video on my very old and outdated computer.
He seems to appreciate the positive contribution made by religion to civilization, and that's all to the good.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Tim the plumber said:

I am alive because I have had my tonsils taken out.

I don't consider any bit of that entertainment.

I think it was medical science that saved my life.

I think that is more important than entertainment.
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Your feelings of self-importance are duly noted.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Tim the plumber said:

I am alive because I have had my tonsils taken out.

I don't consider any bit of that entertainment.

I think it was medical science that saved my life.

I think that is more important than entertainment.
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Science cured my leukaemia. That is far more important to me than entertainment.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
"It's clear to me that religions are in the end too complex, interesting and on occasion wise to be abandoned simply to those who believe in them."
Alain de Botton, Religion for Atheists (2012)

I like de Botton. But I've only read his Proust book and cannot view Youtube video on my very old and outdated computer.
He seems to appreciate the positive contribution made by religion to civilization, and that's all to the good.
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I recommend Joseph Campbell
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
You're assumption is that we don't attend to unimportant things, and this assumption on your part is false. That's how so.
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Nonsense. If you attend to it, and invest resources in it, by definition it has some importance.
 
Angel said:
The humanities and the sciences are both equally entertainments -- in the sense that they pass the time and amuse us while our brief mysterious life rushes to its inevitable end.
But there is entertainment and then there is entertainment. That is to say, not all entertainment is equal in every sense.
All entertainment gives us pleasure of one sort or another, but some entertainment provides edification as well.
Edification is insight into the moral and intellectual values involved in the human condition.
The human condition is the set of factors comprising human existence in all its complex social, psychological, moral, aspirational, mortal situations and interactions -- the lived experience of everyday life lived between the poles of birth and death.
The humanities offer insight into the human condition, into the values involved in human existence, into the moral, aesthetic and aspirational themes of everyday life.
The sciences offer only insight into how the physical world works, into the mechanisms of physical interactions.
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This is a rarity. I agree with this post. So why do you feel the need to denigrate science? It is not in direct competition with the humanities. They enhance each other.
 
devildavid said:
This is a rarity. I agree with this post. So why do you feel the need to denigrate science? It is not in direct competition with the humanities. They enhance each other.
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And this is a rarity. Indeed perhaps the first time I "Liked" a post by devildavid.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Tim the plumber said:
Try answering his questions.
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Do you not know what it means "to take a mulligan"? That's the name of my plumber by the way. Would you call this synchronicity? I mean, after you google the word of course.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Religion may be wonderful, but it is religious people who are the first to draw the sword against their fellow man for not praying or believing like they do.

I can understand wars for land, women, money, or the best defense being a good offense.
These I may not agree with, but can understand them.

I will never understand killing people because they have a different BELIEF than me.

I will embrace a spiritual person much more than a religious one.
Religion often forces people's thinking into a small box called dogma.

ie....
Baptists don't dance
Church of Christers don't allow instruments to be played in their church.
Pentecostals babble in tongues but don't provide translators as the bible says they should.
Strict Jews don't eat bacon and pork their wives through a hole in a sheet.
Moslem's don't eat bacon
Hindu's don't eat cows

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah,
and Methodists don't recognize each other at Hooter's.
 
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Re: Science is Santa

sangha said:
I recommend Joseph Campbell
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Yup, his books the Masks of God and the Power of Myth are in my bookshelf.
 
Re: Science is Santa

Angel said:
Do you not know what it means "to take a mulligan"? That's the name of my plumber by the way. Would you call this synchronicity? I mean, after you google the word of course.
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Synchronicity is a made up nonsense word. And you never cease with the insults and superior attitude, yet you've demonstrated nothing to justify it.
 
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