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One or Many

The question of whether there is only one god or many has often been asked, but it should never have been asked....
Oh, where to begin

To start with, almost no religions developed from a rational and thorough examination of the universe and nature of reality. No, they start by someone living in a relatively primitive society, asking "why is there thunder?" and answering it by personifying the forces of nature. Polytheisms developed in part as a result of conquest and other cultural interactions, and in part to explain diverse phenomena.

To continue, it certainly wasn't the case that everyone got their own private religion prior to the development of Judaism (which, by the way, is a very small religion overall). Religions are typically hierarchical and conformist in nature, and require a degree of consistency of belief. The idea of "my own relationship with God" is a recent Protestant affectation. Various religions did personify objects in nature, but they weren't all seen as deities; e.g. Dryads and Fauns were not human, but were not deities either.

Finally, you didn't come up with something new; Hindus have proposed this type of schema for some time, and there is considerable debate over whether Hinduism is mono- or polytheistic. Bramhan is the One Deity, the totality of existence, and other deities are facets and/or avatars of Brahma, with their own consciousness and agency and influence. Oddly enough, while Hinduism is obviously a popular religion, Christians and Muslims around the world haven't ditched their own beliefs in favor of Hinduism.

So, when do you plan to convert to Hinduism?
 
Oh, where to begin

To start with, almost no religions developed from a rational and thorough examination of the universe and nature of reality. No, they start by someone living in a relatively primitive society, asking "why is there thunder?" and answering it by personifying the forces of nature. Polytheisms developed in part as a result of conquest and other cultural interactions, and in part to explain diverse phenomena.

To continue, it certainly wasn't the case that everyone got their own private religion prior to the development of Judaism (which, by the way, is a very small religion overall). Religions are typically hierarchical and conformist in nature, and require a degree of consistency of belief. The idea of "my own relationship with God" is a recent Protestant affectation. Various religions did personify objects in nature, but they weren't all seen as deities; e.g. Dryads and Fauns were not human, but were not deities either.

Finally, you didn't come up with something new; Hindus have proposed this type of schema for some time, and there is considerable debate over whether Hinduism is mono- or polytheistic. Bramhan is the One Deity, the totality of existence, and other deities are facets and/or avatars of Brahma, with their own consciousness and agency and influence. Oddly enough, while Hinduism is obviously a popular religion, Christians and Muslims around the world haven't ditched their own beliefs in favor of Hinduism.

So, when do you plan to convert to Hinduism?
Let's begin here. G4N laid no claim to originality in her OP. Any criticism of her view on the basis of originality is unfair.

Your narrative about the origins of religion as deriving from the personification of mysterious natural phenomena rings true, as far as you take it. I suspect something along those lines myself. Of course, like anthropologists who puzzle out apparent religious artifacts they dig up, we might acknowledge that our narrative reaches back into the darkness of prehistory and as such are thoughtful speculations.

On the other hand, your certainty that there were no private personal religious beliefs in that dark prehistory, but only organized communal beliefs, is unjustified, it seems to me. Our speculations diverge here at any rate. If the origin of religion lies in wonder before the mysteries of the phenomenal world, it seems to me more probable that the development began with individual beliefs and progressed to communal beliefs. Also, the distinction between personal individual belief and organized belief ought not to be conflated, as the former persists to this day above and beyond, or perhaps below and before is more precise, the doctrines of organized religion. The personal relationship to God was not invented by Protestants five hundred years ago. A stronger case can be made that it was invented by Christianity two thousand years ago, but I don't even think that's true. Even the so-called pagan religions encouraged personal relationships to various gods. The Roman household gods and the Ancient Greek oracles were nods in this direction of personalization.
 
Oh, where to begin

To start with, almost no religions developed from a rational and thorough examination of the universe and nature of reality. No, they start by someone living in a relatively primitive society, asking "why is there thunder?" and answering it by personifying the forces of nature. Polytheisms developed in part as a result of conquest and other cultural interactions, and in part to explain diverse phenomena.

To continue, it certainly wasn't the case that everyone got their own private religion prior to the development of Judaism (which, by the way, is a very small religion overall). Religions are typically hierarchical and conformist in nature, and require a degree of consistency of belief. The idea of "my own relationship with God" is a recent Protestant affectation. Various religions did personify objects in nature, but they weren't all seen as deities; e.g. Dryads and Fauns were not human, but were not deities either.

Finally, you didn't come up with something new; Hindus have proposed this type of schema for some time, and there is considerable debate over whether Hinduism is mono- or polytheistic. Bramhan is the One Deity, the totality of existence, and other deities are facets and/or avatars of Brahma, with their own consciousness and agency and influence. Oddly enough, while Hinduism is obviously a popular religion, Christians and Muslims around the world haven't ditched their own beliefs in favor of Hinduism.

So, when do you plan to convert to Hinduism?

I never said polytheism was new. How could anyone think that?

And religions are not all hierarchical and conformist. Before Christianity in Europe, every village had its own religion.
 
I never said polytheism was new. How could anyone think that?
Read my post. I'm saying that "neither monotheism nor polytheism" is new.

Hinduism is neither monotheistic or polytheistic, it is very difficult to classify in those terms. Your idea of a "one deity that is everything and has all these facets" is a core concept of Hinduism; Brahman is the total sum of all existence, an infinite consciousness that is the spiritual essence of the universe. For the Bhedabheda school, Brahman is the actual universe itself.

Along the same lines, Buddhism is neither monotheistic or polytheistic in any meaningful sense. While the laity worships deities and arhants, the sangha regards the whole question as aside the point, as the goal is to become enlightened -- a process during which, for the most part, the monks generally stop caring about cosmology.

Maybe you ought to read up on it.


And religions are not all hierarchical and conformist. Before Christianity in Europe, every village had its own religion.
Yeah, not so much.

The earliest band-level societies very likely had unique deities. As they developed into larger and more organized societies, these developed into polytheistic religions, which were in part combinations of those smaller societies. As smaller groups were incorporated into larger ones (coerced or voluntary), in some instances they brought their deities with them.

For example, in ancient Rome and its conquered territories, there was a constellation of deities, and individuals could choose which gods to worship or sacrifice to for specific benefits. An individual might sacrifice to Mars before setting off to war, Juno for fertility, and Neptune before setting sail. Other aspects were essentially universal, such as respect for the Vestal Virgins, common practices for sacrifices and divination, and classifying Caesar as a god on Earth.

Similarly, the Huns did not have atomized religious beliefs. Today, we refer to their religion as Tengrism, which is a type of shamanistic sky- and earth-worship. I.e. it wasn't the case that 10 Hun villages would believe in 10 completely different deities or 10 completely separate religious practices. The same for the Celtic religion; as a community they shared myths, and thus were aware of a variety of deities. They had some fairly consistent ideas and practices, e.g. common ideas about life after death, a priestly class (the druids), a common pantheon, and so on.

In tribal, stratified and civilized societies, most religions were quite hierarchical (which is not the same thing as "conforming to norms, ideas and myths"). Even matriarchal religions tended to have a clear hierarchy, with gods on the top, and spirits and humans as lesser entities. Early stage tribal societies probably started forming around 14,000 years ago, whereas exclusive monotheism is more like ~2000 years old. (Maybe 3000 if Zoroastrians were exclusive, I'm not sure if that was the case.)

We should also note that Judaism wasn't exclusive in the way it is today. To wit, Jews did not think that other deities were fake -- rather, they believed that those other deities existed, but that YHWH was the most powerful deity above all deities, and the Jews were YHWH's chosen people on Earth. The intolerance, exclusivity and outright rejection of other religions was a Christian development.
 
According to scripture, false religion/false gods originated early on in mankind's history with Babel...

The evidence of Scripture points to the land of Shinar as the post-Flood birthplace of false religious concepts. Undoubtedly under the direction of Nimrod, “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah,” the building of the city of Babel and its tower, likely a ziggurat to be used for false worship, began. This building project was undertaken, not to bring honor to Jehovah God, but for the self-glorification of the builders, who desired to make “a celebrated name” for themselves. Also, it was in direct opposition to God’s purpose, which was for mankind to spread about in the earth. The Almighty frustrated the plans of these builders by confusing their language. No longer being able to understand one another, they gradually left off building the city and were scattered. (Ge 10:8-10; 11:2-9) However, Nimrod apparently remained at Babel and expanded his dominion, founding the first Babylonian Empire.​—Ge 10:11, 12.

As for the scattered people, wherever they went they carried their false religion with them, to be practiced under new terms and in their new language and new locations. The people were scattered in the days of Peleg, who was born about a century after the Deluge and died at the age of 239. Since both Noah and his son Shem outlived Peleg, the dispersal took place at a time when the facts about earlier events, such as the Flood, were known. (Ge 9:28; 10:25; 11:10-19) This knowledge undoubtedly lingered in some form in the memory of the dispersed people. Indicative of this is the fact that the mythologies of the ancients echo various parts of the Biblical record, but in a distorted, polytheistic form. The legends depict certain gods as serpent slayers; also, the religions of many ancient peoples included the worship of a god placed in the role of a benefactor who dies a violent death on earth and then is restored to life. This may suggest that such a god was actually a deified human wrongly viewed as being the ‘promised seed.’ (Compare Ge 3:15.) The myths tell of the love affairs had by gods and earthly women and of the heroic deeds of their hybrid offspring. (Compare Ge 6:1, 2, 4; Jude 6.) There is hardly a nation on the earth that does not have a legend concerning a global flood, and traces of the tower-building account are likewise to be found in the legends of mankind.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001732#h=7:0-8:1393
 
I never said polytheism was new. How could anyone think that?

And religions are not all hierarchical and conformist. Before Christianity in Europe, every village had its own religion.

What!?
 
The question of whether there is only one god or many has often been asked, but it should never have been asked. For a being who is infinite, there is no difference between one or two or three or a zillion.

Uh...what? I don't know what it means to say that a being "is infinite," but presumably, if such a being cannot tell the difference between one, two, three, and one zillion, what "being infinite" means is, apparently, "being really really bad at math."
 
You showed nothing. You misquote the original and start calling names. Shall we quote the original accurately and look for your contradiction?
I've got your number, mister. And I'm not about to take any crap from you.

LOL Im so scared. And I didnt do a direct quote but a summation, so youre wrong again.
 
It's called an indirect quote. Now kiss off.

You claimed I misquoted, so you lied. And this a public forum so I'll still be around...
 
You claimed I misquoted, so you lied....

It does not say "one true God" in the original.
Your indirect quote replaces "the Lord thy God" with your own gloss "the one true god."
There is no contradiction between saying "I am the Lord thy God" and "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
What's more, there is no contradiction between saying "I am the one true god" and "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Well the bible did say that god didnt like it when you worship other gods, but he also said he was the one true god: a sure sign of a lunatic... :crazy3:
There's no contradiction between the two assertions. Seeing contradiction where contradiction isn't may be lunatic of course. Is that the sign we should see?
Anyone who doesnt see a contradiction in that is an idiot...

Exodus 20
20 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV

So, the God of Exodus 20 is, according to you, "lunatic," and anyone who doesn't see the contradiction you see there is an "idiot."
Well, where is this contradiction?
 
You claimed I misquoted, so you lied. And this a public forum so I'll still be around...

But Angel has got your number! Aren't you scared?
 
Every village had its own religion? Nope.
 
You hate religion so much you never read anything about it.

Wrong. I have a shelf full of books about religion. Present your evidence for every village having its own religion. I bet you can't. And I don't hate religion. I can recommend this book "A History of Pagan Europe" by Prudence Jones and Nigel Pennick.
 
Wrong. I have a shelf full of books about religion. Present your evidence for every village having its own religion. I bet you can't. And I don't hate religion.
You're in denial, sir. It is obvious to anyone reading your hateful posts about religion that you hate religion. I suggest you add to your collection of religious books a book on psychology.
 
I wish these two would stop commenting on subjects that they know nothing about.
 
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