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[W: 355] Does the Bible teach eternal torment in hell for the unbelievers?

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RAMOSS said:
Where do i say he doesn't exist?

And, you asked for proof of something, but your presumption is based on an unsupported claim. I suggest you read up on the concept of 'Burden of Proof'.
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Don't bother me with your folly.
 
Logicman said:
Jesus died physically, not spiritually, so his resurrection is not a problem.

Jesus died for me, and was resurrected. He is my Lord God and Resurrected Savior for the remission of my sins.

If you would just take a little time tonight I have a prayer for you that you can do without losing face with yourself or anyone else.

The prayer:

"So, you're Jesus. So they say. Personally, I don't believe it. But if you are Jesus, just reveal yourself to me in some way and confirm it somehow. Then I can begin to understand it all. Thank you, assuming you exist."

Pray that SINCERELY. If he isn't real you have nothing to lose. You don't have to tell a soul. But if and when he does reveal himself, thank him and be honest enough to let folks know.

When it comes, it may come as a dream, or a word or in a number of other ways. So keep an open mind.
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Hate to burst your bubble that is in no way a sacrifice..."I sacrifice myself but I am not really dead because I can resurrect myself"...big deal...

Now for Jesus to actually offer himself as a sacrifice...to be willing to take a perfect human form, to suffer and die, to put all of his faith in his Heavenly Father to give him the strength to endure...to lay down his life for all of mankind and trusting Jehovah to resurrect him...now that is a real sacrifice...
 
Elvira said:
Hate to burst your bubble that is in no way a sacrifice..."I sacrifice myself but I am not really dead because I can resurrect myself"...big deal...

Now for Jesus to actually offer himself as a sacrifice...to be willing to take a perfect human form, to suffer and die, to put all of his faith in his Heavenly Father to give him the strength to endure...to lay down his life for all of mankind and trusting Jehovah to resurrect him...now that is a real sacrifice...
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i suppose an all powerful god could have wiped its mind or the portion of it it crammed into a body though either way all the magical powers including raising some one from the dead would have been a good sign that maybe things would work out

but then again an all powerful god doesn't need to impale someone and hang them up to die in order to stop itself form hurting others

you guys worship a monster and argue over its petty details
 
blarg said:
i suppose an all powerful god could have wiped its mind or the portion of it it crammed into a body though either way all the magical powers including raising some one from the dead would have been a good sign that maybe things would work out

but then again an all powerful god doesn't need to impale someone and hang them up to die in order to stop itself form hurting others

you guys worship a monster and argue over its petty details
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Says a person who does not understand how perfect, righteous justice works...
 
Elvira said:
Hate to burst your bubble that is in no way a sacrifice..."I sacrifice myself but I am not really dead because I can resurrect myself"...big deal...

Now for Jesus to actually offer himself as a sacrifice...to be willing to take a perfect human form, to suffer and die, to put all of his faith in his Heavenly Father to give him the strength to endure...to lay down his life for all of mankind and trusting Jehovah to resurrect him...now that is a real sacrifice...
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Sorry to burst your bubble but Jesus said he would resurrect himself. And only God can do that.

From John 2

18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
 
Logicman said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but Jesus said he would resurrect himself. And only God can do that.

From John 2

18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
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The Scriptures clearly show that it was God who resurrected him...Acts 10:40; Romans 8:11; Hebrews 13:20...did Jesus mean that he would resurrect himself from the dead? Does that mean that Jesus is God, because Acts 2:32 says, “This Jesus God raised up”?

No, because such a view would conflict with Galatians 1:1.."Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him up from the dead"...which clearly ascribes the resurrection of Jesus to the Father, not to the Son...

Luke 8:48 Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman...“Your faith has made you well.”

Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith...Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38...

By his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son...because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection...

A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament makes that clear distinction...

“Recall John 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”—(New York, 1932), Vol. V, p. 183.
 
Elvira said:
Says a person who does not understand how perfect, righteous justice works...
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i understand it perfectly you just say something is perfect righteous justice so you don't have to think about it
 
blarg said:
i understand it perfectly you just say something is perfect righteous justice so you don't have to think about it
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Ok, explain it to me...
 
Elvira said:
Ok, explain it to me...
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you say every one deserves death because they cant follow your religion i mean your god perfectly but if you will obey and believe your church i mean your god then your god has done a wonderful thing by sacrificing some one who was perfect so your god no longer feels like murdering every one (offer only counts if you believe of course )


this is perfect divine justice because it is now shut up unless you want to die forever

see thats so much better ( for your church ) then having to think about why a god that can do whatever it wants and loves you has to or wants to kill you unless you believe it hurt some one else who didn't deserve it so it would no longer want to kill you
 
blarg said:
you say every one deserves death because they cant follow your religion i mean your god perfectly but if you will obey and believe your church i mean your god then your god has done a wonderful thing by sacrificing some one who was perfect so your god no longer feels like murdering every one (offer only counts if you believe of course )


this is perfect divine justice because it is now shut up unless you want to die forever

see thats so much better ( for your church ) then having to think about why a god that can do whatever it wants and loves you has to or wants to kill you unless you believe it hurt some one else who didn't deserve it so it would no longer want to kill you
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Ok, now explain it coherently...
 
Elvira said:
Ok, now explain it coherently...
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pretty sure i did you invented the fall story told everyone they fail to follow gods laws in some way then introduce some one who can get them out of trouble through a heroic sacrifice but only if they believe you and its wrong to question why an omnipotent god who cares for you would be so hard up to kill you or why its murder boner could be put down with killing someone who never offended it in your stead


you couldn't get more obvious if you said your messiah resurrected itself but isn't hear right now because he buggered off up into heaven

o wait
 
blarg said:
pretty sure i did you invented the fall story told everyone they fail to follow gods laws in some way then introduce some one who can get them out of trouble through a heroic sacrifice but only if they believe you and its wrong to question why an omnipotent god who cares for you would be so hard up to kill you or why its murder boner could be put down with killing someone who never offended it in your stead


you couldn't get more obvious if you said your messiah resurrected itself but isn't hear right now because he buggered off up into heaven

o wait
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Nope, pretty sure you didn't...for starters, use punctuations...
 
Elvira said:
Nope, pretty sure you didn't...for starters, use punctuations...
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using divine punctuation you only dont see it if you don't believe
 
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