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What do we replace religion with?[W:675]

Tim the plumber

Tim the plumber

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I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Religion is irreplaceable.
I believe this is what Peterson is saying too.
Namaste.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
Click to expand...

It is just too bad that the American party of the political atheist is also the party of choice for the liar, the cheater, the irresponsible, the pervert, the ungodly, the unruly, the lawless, the disgruntled, the greedy, the racist, the uncivilized, the creepy, the felon, the seditionist, and so forth.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.
Click to expand...
This essentially sounds like an extension of the classic slander that if you can’t be moral if you don’t follow our faith.
Why would “abandoning” the religion automatically mean you lose the principles? Much of Western civilisation is built on principles that are fundamental to Christianity but much of that civilisation is also not Christian, in practice and/or principle, at both the individual and organisational levels. Also, many of those principals both pre-date Christianity and exists (or have existed) independently of it.

Tim the plumber said:
I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.
Click to expand...
When, across the entirety of human history, has it been otherwise? There is nothing to suggest that, in general terms, people have acted any differently to how we do today, with all the good, bad and indifferent that entails.

Tim the plumber said:
I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.
Click to expand...
A nice idea I guess but I don’t see how it could ever work.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
It is just too bad that the American party of the political atheist is also the party of choice for the liar, the cheater, the irresponsible, the pervert, the ungodly, the unruly, the lawless, the disgruntled, the greedy, the racist, the uncivilized, the creepy, the felon, the seditionist, and so forth.
Click to expand...

As an outside observer, being British, the Republican party seems to be mostly those things especially with the bible bashing gun mad anti-any state what so ever brigade.

That you characterize the other side so is fairly extreme. To say some are such is OK but all?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
It is just too bad that the American party of the political atheist is also the party of choice for the liar, the cheater, the irresponsible, the pervert, the ungodly, the unruly, the lawless, the disgruntled, the greedy, the racist, the uncivilized, the creepy, the felon, the seditionist, and so forth.
Click to expand...

this that respect and civility of yours?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...cent-weeks-post1069209579.html#post1069209579
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

HonestJoe said:
This essentially sounds like an extension of the classic slander that if you can’t be moral if you don’t follow our faith.
Why would “abandoning” the religion automatically mean you lose the principles? Much of Western civilisation is built on principles that are fundamental to Christianity but much of that civilisation is also not Christian, in practice and/or principle, at both the individual and organisational levels. Also, many of those principals both pre-date Christianity and exists (or have existed) independently of it.

When, across the entirety of human history, has it been otherwise? There is nothing to suggest that, in general terms, people have acted any differently to how we do today, with all the good, bad and indifferent that entails.

A nice idea I guess but I don’t see how it could ever work.
Click to expand...

The Quaker movement was this is a mildly christian form.

I think that could easily happen again without the God bit at all. It produced very fine businesses which have been very sucessful and the Quakers have been noted as a very wealthy group from the efforts of themselves. Good people to do business with.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
The Quaker movement was this is a mildly christian form.
Click to expand...
I have a couple of friends who are Quakers and like them very much, not least because we have a lot in common. They’re not good people because they’re Quakers, they’re good people who happen to be Quakers.

Tim the plumber said:
I think that could easily happen again without the God bit at all.
Click to expand...
Not could happen, has happened, does happen and will continue to happen. You still seem to be operating with this false image of some grand social transition from a Christian to a post-Christian society when in practice, nothing significant has actually changed.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
Click to expand...

The key to business is "Trust." Trust is the main reason people of a feather flock together; they can better predict what the other person will do based on shared beliefs. In some countries, Trust is only shared with family. In others, it is shared by religion. In the US, it is shared by rule of law. So, yeah, once rule of law breaks down, you have nothing.

So, my solution is simple. Enforce the ****ing law. If you swindle, you get prosecuted. If you fudge your books, you do time. If you lie, you get sued for misrepresentation. Simple stuff. But, we are going in the wrong direction on that front.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

HonestJoe said:
I have a couple of friends who are Quakers and like them very much, not least because we have a lot in common. They’re not good people because they’re Quakers, they’re good people who happen to be Quakers.

Not could happen, has happened, does happen and will continue to happen. You still seem to be operating with this false image of some grand social transition from a Christian to a post-Christian society when in practice, nothing significant has actually changed.
Click to expand...

By a new none-God Quaker thing I mean a similar group, with the ethos, who would be similarly about stating that they would not be doing the rip-off max money for me thing. But living honestly even if that meant coming second.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

calamity said:
The key to business is "Trust." Trust is the main reason people of a feather flock together; they can better predict what the other person will do based on shared beliefs. In some countries, Trust is only shared with family. In others, it is shared by religion. In the US, it is shared by rule of law. So, yeah, once rule of law breaks down, you have nothing.

So, my solution is simple. Enforce the ****ing law. If you swindle, you get prosecuted. If you fudge your books, you do time. If you lie, you get sued for misrepresentation. Simple stuff. But, we are going in the wrong direction on that front.
Click to expand...

Yep. The trouble is also laywer double speak.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:

By a new none-God Quaker thing I mean a similar group, with the ethos, who would be similarly about stating that they would not be doing the rip-off max money for me thing. But living honestly even if that meant coming second.
Click to expand...
Then are you really talking about replacing religion or replacing gods? They're two vastly different questions.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
Click to expand...

Civilisation was around long before christianity was invented and will be here long after chritianity is completely forgotten.

Nor do we need religion for civilisation to function. Religions only purpose is to bind people together as a large group that goes beyond family ties. We now have many other influences that can achieve that. Sports, politics education etc.

If this is your thinking on religion then you do the word atheist a disservice by calling yourself one.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

HonestJoe said:
Then are you really talking about replacing religion or replacing gods? They're two vastly different questions.
Click to expand...

The thing with the JP video in the OP is that he is defining the primary driver of your life (as in your philosophy, or life goals) as your version of what God does or did when we believed.

And I think I am talking of replacing both religion and the great king fairy bloke.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

soylentgreen said:
Civilisation was around long before christianity was invented and will be here long after chritianity is completely forgotten.

Nor do we need religion for civilisation to function. Religions only purpose is to bind people together as a large group that goes beyond family ties. We now have many other influences that can achieve that. Sports, politics education etc.

If this is your thinking on religion then you do the word atheist a disservice by calling yourself one.
Click to expand...

If you watch the vid in the OP you will see what I mean. Or what he means..

I agree with you but I di see his point. I think he is 40% right about it. That we all need a sense of a greater cause in life beyond our own pleaseure.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

The day will come when all religions will be replaced with Jehovah God's Theocracy...bringing about rich everlasting blessings for all...

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:1-4
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

HonestJoe said:
I have a couple of friends who are Quakers and like them very much, not least because we have a lot in common. They’re not good people because they’re Quakers, they’re good people who happen to be Quakers.
.
Click to expand...

That is a good point. After all, Nixon was a Quaker.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
Yep. The trouble is also laywer double speak.
Click to expand...

I'd start with preachers. Right? The biggest fraudsters out there are selling seats in heaven to the rubes.

Next, the politicians. They lie like rugs with double-sticky tape on the back.

Marketers are probably not too far behind. Although, at least they cannot promise the downright impossible like preachers and politicians.

Lawyers are a step or two below parents, who lie to their kids more blatantly than attorneys find loopholes in laws.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

...
Click to expand...

Peterson is all about the need for transcendence.

"The pride of the intellect: The intellect is the most incredible human capacity. It is the highest of all human capacities, actually. However, it is also the thing that can go most terribly wrong, because the intellect can become arrogant about its own existence and its accomplishments, and it can fall in love with its own products. That's what happens with ideologies. You become obsessed with a human-constructed dogma of which you believe is 100% right, and it eradicates the necessity of anything transcendent.... The basic totalitarian claim: What I know is everything that needs to be known, and if only it were only manifest in the world, the world would become a utopia. I also think that that's the core idea behind the Tower of Babel. It's the idea that we can build a structure that makes the transcendent unnecessary."

"Human beings are made in God's image – that's actually the cornerstone of our legal system. Our body of laws has that metaphysical presupposition, without which the laws fall apart. And that's starting to happen. It really is. It's the postmodern critique of law. The law schools are overrun by postmodernists who are undermining the structure of Western law as fast as they possibly can. They don't buy any of this. So they're much more likely to think of the law as a casual, pragmatic tool that is to be manipulated for the purposes of bringing forth the Utopia. It's a really, really, really bad idea. It's very strange to me that we go off track when that metaphysical foundation starts to get rattled."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
Click to expand...

There is something to be said about a common cultural binding that can hold large numbers of people to some kind of standard. Not saying that without religion there aren't standards but there is nothing the particularly binds say...hundreds of millions of atheists to a common cause or goal.

What does that mean when trying to create a large society without that? I don't know...but it seems ours is breaking down as we become more and more irreligious.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:

If you watch the vid in the OP you will see what I mean. Or what he means..

I agree with you but I di see his point. I think he is 40% right about it. That we all need a sense of a greater cause in life beyond our own pleaseure.
Click to expand...

That so called greater cause is in realty nothing but our own pleasure.

Religion held a purpose when civilisation was first been tried. It was the bond that held together many different groups to create a civilisation. But civilisation has matured beyond the need for religion now. There are many so called higher causes to bring people together including the habit we now have of living together in large groups.

We seek a sense of belonging which the average con artist pretending to preach a religion will abuse.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

soylentgreen said:
That so called greater cause is in realty nothing but our own pleasure.

Religion held a purpose when civilisation was first been tried. It was the bond that held together many different groups to create a civilisation. But civilisation has matured beyond the need for religion now. There are many so called higher causes to bring people together including the habit we now have of living together in large groups.

We seek a sense of belonging which the average con artist pretending to preach a religion will abuse.
Click to expand...
Peterson seems to be speaking about you here:
Angel said:
Peterson is all about the need for transcendence.

"The pride of the intellect: The intellect is the most incredible human capacity. It is the highest of all human capacities, actually. However, it is also the thing that can go most terribly wrong, because the intellect can become arrogant about its own existence and its accomplishments, and it can fall in love with its own products. That's what happens with ideologies. You become obsessed with a human-constructed dogma of which you believe is 100% right, and it eradicates the necessity of anything transcendent.... The basic totalitarian claim: What I know is everything that needs to be known, and if only it were only manifest in the world, the world would become a utopia. I also think that that's the core idea behind the Tower of Babel. It's the idea that we can build a structure that makes the transcendent unnecessary."

"Human beings are made in God's image – that's actually the cornerstone of our legal system. Our body of laws has that metaphysical presupposition, without which the laws fall apart. And that's starting to happen. It really is. It's the postmodern critique of law. The law schools are overrun by postmodernists who are undermining the structure of Western law as fast as they possibly can. They don't buy any of this. So they're much more likely to think of the law as a casual, pragmatic tool that is to be manipulated for the purposes of bringing forth the Utopia. It's a really, really, really bad idea. It's very strange to me that we go off track when that metaphysical foundation starts to get rattled."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson
Click to expand...
 
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