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What do we replace religion with?[W:675]

Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
It is just too bad that the American party of the political atheist is also the party of choice for the liar, the cheater, the irresponsible, the pervert, the ungodly, the unruly, the lawless, the disgruntled, the greedy, the racist, the uncivilized, the creepy, the felon, the seditionist, and so forth.
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I highlighted all of those that apply to the current Republican president. :lol:
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

I think the idea that Christian values are implicitly important is misleading. It fits the narrative Peterson pushes, but Western culture flourished long before Christianity, and many of our most important concepts predate it, with their origins in pagan Greece and Rome. Sure, it's important society shares threads of belief, but that can come from belief systems outside Christian thought.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

calamity said:
I'd start with preachers. Right? The biggest fraudsters out there are selling seats in heaven to the rubes.

Next, the politicians. They lie like rugs with double-sticky tape on the back.

Marketers are probably not too far behind. Although, at least they cannot promise the downright impossible like preachers and politicians.

Lawyers are a step or two below parents, who lie to their kids more blatantly than attorneys find loopholes in laws.
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Today society at large generally ignores the views of the religious.

However, if something comes out as science, say the fuss over autism and vacination, then it is jumped on. That it was a fraud does not stop it. Before we make religion subject to the restrictions of having to be honest we must make sure the alternative is sound.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Anarchon said:
When you cut out cancer, you don't replace it with anything.
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That is not how human emotional thinking works. We have to have some sort of goal or greater purpose.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Fishking said:
There is something to be said about a common cultural binding that can hold large numbers of people to some kind of standard. Not saying that without religion there aren't standards but there is nothing the particularly binds say...hundreds of millions of atheists to a common cause or goal.

What does that mean when trying to create a large society without that? I don't know...but it seems ours is breaking down as we become more and more irreligious.
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Please don't put the blame that should be at the door of porhibition creating a gangster culture on not believing in the Great Sky Daddy.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

spud_meister said:
I highlighted all of those that apply to the current Republican president. :lol:
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Paul spoke of such things in the last days...it's not limited to any one group but the ungodly as a whole because these traits will have overtaken the world...see any resemblance to reading today's newspaper or watching the news?

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." 2 Timothy 3:1-5
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
Please don't put the blame that should be at the door of porhibition creating a gangster culture on not believing in the Great Sky Daddy.
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It appears the point was missed by you.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.

I can see his point. The present philosophy of business is the MBA. In that lying is something you do in your actions all the time. You expect others to do it. You live the life of the slippery slope.

This is, I think the exact opposite of how I, an atheist, wish to live.

The truth and disiple of not cheating or swindling others is what I want my life to be about.

I think we need a new philosophy of progress and responsibilty. Maybe JP is one of the herads of this process of creating such a thing.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
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There are two aspects of religion which are interrelated but not entirely inseparable.

1) the principles of behavior
2) the belief in the almighty

They are interrelated because fear of punishment from the almighty is what is supposed to encourage conformance with the principles.

But belief in the almighty and fear of punishment from the almighty is certainly replaceable. Fear of punishment from the government or from society is, if anything, more likely to compel compliance with rules, because it is far more certain and provable.

Moreover, it is clear from history that religious principles are not immobile and concrete. Depending on who is preaching, Christian principles are quite flexible. Not to mention that fact that there are numerous religions other than Christianity -- so the idea that "without religion" we will become immoral is a little narrow minded.

Ultimately, who we are as a people depends primarily on who our leaders are, and whose example we choose to follow. If our politicians and religious leaders and Gods are good, then society is good. But they are certainly capable of being bad. The fact that there is even a question whether religion, including Christianity, can be a force for extreme evil, reflects a great ignorance of history.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

You may as well ask what do we replace crime with ?

Religion is a psychological crutch for those who can't accept death and can't deal with the questions of how the Universe works.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Elvira said:
Paul spoke of such things in the last days...it's not limited to any one group but the ungodly as a whole because these traits will have overtaken the world...see any resemblance to reading today's newspaper or watching the news?

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." 2 Timothy 3:1-5
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oh come on your not that bad
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Rich2018 said:
You may as well ask what do we replace crime with ?

Religion is a psychological crutch for those who can't accept death and can't deal with the questions of how the Universe works.
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So what do we choose as its' replacement?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Angel said:
Peterson seems to be speaking about you here:
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What nonsense this man speaks. :aw is a tool not some invention of an imaginary being. I would say he is the one suffering from a overly use of pride in intellect if he can twist reasoning in such a way to pretend his fake god is real.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

spud_meister said:
I highlighted all of those that apply to the current Republican president. :lol:
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Here is the list of democrat policies noit favored by Trump:

Sodomy. Abortion. Socialism. Kicking God and the ten commandments out of schools and public places. And dozens more godless policies demonstrating a clear animosity towards the One True God of the Bible.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
Here is the list of democrat policies noit favored by Trump:

Sodomy. Abortion. Socialism. Kicking God and the ten commandments out of schools and public places. And dozens more godless policies demonstrating a clear animosity towards the One True God of the Bible.
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hey god do you care about homosexuality or abortion?

or the separation of church and state

did you have anything to do with the bible?

do you exist?

...........................................................................

god did not answer you seem to be making stuff up marke
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I was watching this video by Jordan Peterson;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyYdGiJpyXk

The gist is that the civilization we have is founded upon Christian principals. And that by abandoning this religion we will create a civilization that simply does not function.
Click to expand...


Not really. I would say that some of the most valuable things in our modern western civilization come from pagan Greek and Roman civilization: from our laws and jurisprudence, to systems of government, to art, literature, and philosophy, to science, technology, and mathematics. In fact, western civilization fell right after it became Christian, and stayed down for a good millennium, before rediscovering the Greco-Roman civilization.

Does anybody else have an input into the new philosophy of society?
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Have you read much about the political philosophy of John Dewey? Any of some of his more contemporary disciples like the late Richard Rorty? It's good stuff.

Here is Richard Rorty, who, in this 1997 interview, basically predicting the rise of a Donald Trump-like figure:

 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
Here is the list of democrat policies noit favored by Trump:

Sodomy. Abortion. Socialism. Kicking God and the ten commandments out of schools and public places. And dozens more godless policies demonstrating a clear animosity towards the One True God of the Bible.
Click to expand...

Then all the founding fathers of this country must have been Democrats:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. "
-James Madison

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity"
-James Madison

"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
-James Madison

"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion... It is no more a Christian nation than it is a Jewish or Mohametan (Muslim) one."
_John Adams

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding... "
-Thomas Jefferson

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
― Thomas Paine

“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
― Thomas Paine
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These were our founding fathers. I wonder how our conservative friends if any Democratic politician today dared to say anything like these?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

ataraxia said:
Not really. I would say that some of the most valuable things in our modern western civilization come from pagan Greek and Roman civilization: from our laws and jurisprudence, to systems of government, to art, literature, and philosophy, to science, technology, and mathematics. In fact, western civilization fell right after it became Christian, and stayed down for a good millennium, before rediscovering the Greco-Roman civilization.



Have you read much about the political philosophy of John Dewey? Any of some of his more contemporary disciples like the late Richard Rorty? It's good stuff.

Here is Richard Rorty, who, in this 1997 interview, basically predicting the rise of a Donald Trump-like figure:

Click to expand...


I got to 11 minutes in and there had been nothing profound said and gave up.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Replace religion with socialism
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

marke said:
Here is the list of democrat policies noit favored by Trump:

Sodomy. Abortion. Socialism. Kicking God and the ten commandments out of schools and public places. And dozens more godless policies demonstrating a clear animosity towards the One True God of the Bible.
Click to expand...

It's a shame Christ most spoke against lying, adultery, unfaithfulness, hypocrisy and greed. What do you think Christ would have to say about a wealthy man who pays women for sex while his third wife is at home with their infant?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Rich2018 said:
You may as well ask what do we replace crime with ?

Religion is a psychological crutch for those who can't accept death and can't deal with the questions of how the Universe works.
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So why begrudge those in need of it their crutch? What's it to you how people make their way in life?
And in what way is religion a crime? A crime requires a broken law. What law does religion break?
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Angel said:
So why begrudge those in need of it their crutch? What's it to you how people make their way in life?
And in what way is religion a crime? A crime requires a broken law. What law does religion break?
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Because sometimes if a crutch is overused it atrophies the muscles and keeps you from learning to walk for yourself.
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

Tim the plumber said:
I got to 11 minutes in and there had been nothing profound said and gave up.
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Yeah, I guess sometimes it’s hard to appreciate things when you walk into the middle of a conversation. My reading recommendation: Start with the philosophy of American pragmatism, especially William James, Charles Sanders Pierce, and John Dewey (especially Dewey on democracy and pragmatism). Then, study a little of the continental philosophers like Ludwig Wittgenstein and Martin Heidegger.

Rorty’s brand of pragmatism and ideas on ethics, science, and democracy is called “Neo-pragmatism”, a blend of Dewey and classical American pragmatism with many postmodern European insights. It makes a lot of sense to me.

For a real overview and context, start with a good history of philosophy course if you have never taken one. This is where I got started:

Great Minds of the Western Intellectual Tradition Philosophy and Intellectual History Audio CDs and Course Guidebook: 9791565853545: Amazon.com: Books
 
Re: What do we replace religion with?

ataraxia said:
Because sometimes if a crutch is overused it atrophies the muscles and keeps you from learning to walk for yourself.
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That's their business, not yours or Rich2018's. Live and let live.
 
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