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Thread: Appearance and Reality

  1. #11
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    Re: Appearance and Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by zyzygy View Post
    Spam spam spam spam......
    "Spam" has three (3) meanings according to the God Google:

    1. irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.
    unwanted or intrusive advertising on the Internet.
    "an autogenerated spam website"

    2.
    trademark
    a canned meat product made mainly from ham.

    verb
    verb: spam; 3rd person present: spams; past tense: spammed; past participle: spammed; gerund or present participle: spamming

    1.
    send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=spam...x-a&gws_rd=ssl

    Our own DP Forum Rules, at #2, hews to #1 of the God Google's meanings:

    2. Spamming - What constitutes spamming can be, but is not limited to, "A message (typically an advertisement) sent indiscriminately to a wide set of discussion lists [forums] or newsgroups."[google] Also, any message or series of messages promoting a product, site or service made by a member who does not demonstrate the intention and willingness to participate in the normal discourse of the DPMB can be considered spamming. Spamming and/or spam bots will not be tolerated and can result in immediate banning of the spammer.
    https://www.debatepolitics.com/misc.php?do=vsarules


    Which meaning are you relying on in your malignant post, zyzygy?

    None of the meanings seems to fit, you see.

    Or does your post in fact test the parameters of DP Forum Rule #4?


    This thread is off to a slow start, to be sure, but there is no rule against slow-starting threads, and no rule against trying to generate interest in a thread.

    If you have nothing to say on the topic of "Appearance and Reality," then don't say it.

    But don't be a spoil sport.


    Namaste
    Last edited by Angel; 08-13-18 at 08:23 AM. Reason: TYPO
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

  2. #12
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    Re: Appearance and Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Appearance and Reality

    Once, Zhuang Zhou dreamed he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering about, happy with himself and doing as he pleased.
    He didn't know that he was Zhuang Zhou.

    Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuang Zhou.
    But he didn't know if he was Zhuang Zhou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming that he was Zhuang Zhou.
    Between Zhuang Zhou and the butterfly there must be some distinction!
    This is called the Transformation of Things.

     Zhuangzi, chapter 2 (Watson translation)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuangzi_%28book%29



    Those of us who have enjoyed an education in the Humanities recognize at once in the title of this thread a central theme in World Literature, and those of us who have studied Philosophy recognize in it the foundational question of both Eastern and Western traditions, and finally those of us who have studied neither the Humanities in general nor Philosophy in particular have no doubt become acquainted with the theme announced in the thread title by way of personal experience, and in the event have developed their own take on the implied distinction.

    Now I have posted no videos or articles (save the famous Zhuangzi anecdote) in this OP in deference to those who have complained of my posting videos and articles, and instead appeal to members' personal exploration of the thread theme in inviting them to post their beliefs about Appearance and Reality, and in addition, if available, the reasons they hold their beliefs.

    If one reads through the threads in the "Beliefs and Skepticism" forum, one will find frequent use of the term "Reality" -- often to point out someone else's error as regards Reality. So it does not seem an extravagant request to ask members to share with us here what they mean by the term.

    It may indeed be extravagant to ask for their reasons for believing Reality is what they hold it to be, but a belief without a justification is not worth very much after all.

    Naturally I have my own beliefs about Appearance and Reality, but to avoid initial reactionary posts and to encourage considered good-faith posts, I shall postpone making my own beliefs known until the occasion arises in subsequent posts.

    Challenges to beliefs are welcome, inasmuch as only in the testing of beliefs is their merit shown.

    The photo is of Marilyn Monroe, and I think it illustrates the theme of this thread rather well, in that the distortion in the funhouse mirror merely points up the distortion in the life of Norma Jeane Mortenson that led to her untimely death by drug overdose at age 36.


    Please do not quote the entire OP on the first page. Save DP bandwidth.


    Namaste
    Your thread title is also the title of a book by British Idealist Francis Herbert Bradley. IIRC it was published in 1898. It has some arguments for a version of idealism that differed significantly from the (at the time) more popular German Idealism. I think it's fairly easy to find a facsimile copy these days.

  3. #13
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    Re: Appearance and Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    In other words, without Mind there is no Reality.
    So reality didn't exist prior to humans evolving consciousness? How does that work?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #14
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    Re: Appearance and Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    So reality didn't exist prior to humans evolving consciousness? How does that work?
    Not necessarily human consciousness, but consciousness of some sort and degree, yes: this is what I believe. "Reality" is the name of an experience. Reality is experience.
    Reality outside experience is impossible to imagine. When we imagine it, we experience it in imagination; we peep in on it and tend to forget that we are peeping and that peeping is an experience.

    One way to wrap the mind around this notion is to think of color. Take any color. Red is my favorite, so let's take red. The color red as we experience it does not exist outside the experience of red. Remove the experience of red -- remove all animal consciousness capable of experiencing red -- and red is no longer part of experience; therefore, red is no longer part of Reality. Because "Reality," remember, names an experience, because Reality is experience.

    This view of things comes out of British Empiricism -- out of Locke, Berkeley and Hume -- the view that all knowledge begins with experience. It has a pedigree; it's perfectly respectable, even if no longer popular. A hundred years ago, it still had serious proponents, and for a hundred years before that it was the dominant philosophical view. The distinction between Appearance and Reality goes back to Plato. The restriction of Reality to Appearance starts with the Empiricists.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

  5. #15
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    Re: Appearance and Reality


    6 minutes

    Surely open-minded materialist members can spare six minutes to hear the argument on the other side!
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://i.imgur.com/u68aMie.jpg</a>

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