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Morality with no god at all

Dragonfly

Dragonfly

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Yes Virginia, it's a thing.

There's no absolute need for a god to be moral.

FACT
 
Dragonfly said:
Yes Virginia, it's a thing.

There's no absolute need for a god to be moral.

FACT
Click to expand...

Who's asserting that God and/or belief in God is necessary for someone to act morally?

I, as a believer, would completely agree with you on this.
 
Dragonfly said:
Have you not been reading some of these threads here?
Click to expand...

I read some threads closely, I lightly skim over others, and I ignore many more, so maybe I'm missing posts of it, but it's not a claim from Christians that I run across... Christians usually say that one needs God to answer numerous why questions (and to properly ground morality), but not (typically, anyway) that nonbelievers can't be moral.
 
I worship, like, thirty ****ing gods and I generally take their morality under advisement.

They are good because they mostly do good things. Those things aren't necessarily good just because the gods do them.
 
gfm7175 said:
I read some threads closely, I lightly skim over others, and I ignore many more, so maybe I'm missing posts of it, but it's not a claim from Christians that I run across... Christians usually say that one needs God to answer numerous why questions (and to properly ground morality), but not (typically, anyway) that nonbelievers can't be moral.
Click to expand...

Dragonfly said:
ummmmm...???????
Click to expand...

Ummmmmmmm what? There are many questions that are unanswered (and no firm right/wrong grounding for morality) without God, but that's not making the claim that God is needed for nonbelievers to act morally... that's just making the claim that God makes more sense out of morality and the why questions that come with morality...
 
Dragonfly said:
Yes Virginia, it's a thing.

There's no absolute need for a god to be moral.

FACT
Click to expand...

There is also no absolute need of a god to obey traffic laws.

Or fry an egg.

What's your point?
 
code1211 said:
There is also no absolute need of a god to obey traffic laws.

Or fry an egg.

What's your point?
Click to expand...

There's a crap-ton of people here (and not here) who feel without god there would be no morals.
Or no need for morals.
That we'd all be raping, murdering, child molesting, thieving savages.
 
code1211 said:
There is also no absolute need of a god to obey traffic laws.

Or fry an egg.

What's your point?
Click to expand...

Many people believe we have an absolute need for a god.

Are you not following any of the threads in this area at all?
 
gfm7175 said:
that's just making the claim that God makes more sense out of morality and the why questions that come with morality...
Click to expand...

Well, your "claim" is exactly what this thread is about.

One needs no god to make sense out of anything, or "properly ground" anything.
 
code1211 said:
There is also no absolute need of a god to obey traffic laws.

Or fry an egg.

What's your point?
Click to expand...

I could tell ya but it'd probably get me banned...:mrgreen:
 
Dragonfly said:
Yes Virginia, it's a thing.

There's no absolute need for a god to be moral.

FACT
Click to expand...

That is 100% correct. Since the fact is morals are subjective nothing is NEEDED for them.

There are people wit no god that are 100 times more moral than people with god, its just reality.

I myself am christian and my morals come from many places but they are still just my subjective view of them. On this planet by definition they will always be subjective I cant deny facts.
 
gfm7175 said:
Who's asserting that God and/or belief in God is necessary for someone to act morally?

I, as a believer, would completely agree with you on this.
Click to expand...

its not any majority thats for sure . . ive only seen it from probably like 5 people tops over the years. its around the same low numbers that think morals are objective or abortion = murder etc but a couple do exist.

I know theres nobody at my church that feels its needed.
 
Dragonfly said:
There's a crap-ton of people here (and not here) who feel without god there would be no morals.
Or no need for morals.
That we'd all be raping, murdering, child molesting, thieving savages.
Click to expand...

Look around the world. We have a code of morals and still have a lot of that and wars, too. We are not very good at doing the right thing.
 
AGENT J said:
That is 100% correct. Since the fact is morals are subjective nothing is NEEDED for them.

There are people wit no god that are 100 times more moral than people with god, its just reality.

I myself am christian and my morals come from many places but they are still just my subjective view of them. On this planet by definition they will always be subjective I cant deny facts.
Click to expand...

This atheist is about a thousand times more moral than Oliver Cromwell. I have never massacred any Catholics.
 
Dragonfly said:
There's a crap-ton of people here (and not here) who feel without god there would be no morals.
Or no need for morals.
That we'd all be raping, murdering, child molesting, thieving savages.
Click to expand...

I understand.

i would ask the same question of them that I asked of you.

Society demands commonly accepted norms of behavior for the society to maintain. They don't need to be the same behaviors from one society to the next, but in each society, they need to be commonly accepted.

Anyway, that's the way I "feel" about it.I could be wrong.
 
Dragonfly said:
:roll:

What's deceptive about it?
Click to expand...

What he posted:

"I read some threads closely, I lightly skim over others, and I ignore many more, so maybe I'm missing posts of it, but it's not a claim from Christians that I run across... Christians usually say that one needs God to answer numerous why questions (and to properly ground morality), but not (typically, anyway) that nonbelievers can't be moral."

What you posted:

"Quote Originally Posted by gfm7175 View Post
Christians usually say that one needs God to answer numerous why questions (and to properly ground morality)"


Omitting the parts you omitted changes the meaning of his post. there could not have been andy system limitaions on the length of the post.

I was only wondering...
 
code1211 said:
Why did you deceptively edit the quote you posted?
Click to expand...

I read the quote. What's deceptive about it?

Seems like gfm contradicted himself in a single sentence.
 
Dragonfly said:
There's a crap-ton of people here (and not here) who feel without god there would be no morals.
Or no need for morals.
That we'd all be raping, murdering, child molesting, thieving savages.
Click to expand...

This is like a little kid not understanding why he should still behave, clean up his room, not pull his little sister’s hair, or bathe regularly, even if his parents were not around. If you lack the judgment, maturity, knowledge, and intelligence to make decisions on issues based on their own merits, you will always need an external authority to tell you what to do.
 
jimbo said:
I read the quote. What's deceptive about it?

Seems like gfm contradicted himself in a single sentence.
Click to expand...

He most certainly did contradiction himself


its like this

do you have to be a steeler fan to believe in Ben . .

no of course not

(small print) . . . BUT only true steeler fans can properly believe in ben and understand
 
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