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Morality and Belief in God

Angel said:
My long-winded speech dismantles your appeal to the dictionary definition of "subjective/"
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No it doesn't
I don't have to show that moral judgments are not in the mind. That's ridiculous, and reveals that you don't know what you're talking about.
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If they are of the mind they are subjective your failure to comprehend this is your problem.
Your refusal to accept the definitions of terms is also your problem
 
Quag said:
After over 1k posts, I'm pretty sure Angel has hitched his wagon to option B
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Thread history soundly supports that but the future could change
 
Angel said:
Engage my argument against yours and Quag's dictionary definition, or retire from the field. Your posts amount to noise.
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Translation: you still cant present one honest, logical, factual argument based on intellectual merit that impacts the proven facts in anyway what so ever. So you desperately try (and completely fail) to deflect but it wont work. Fact remains all your clams and arguments have been thoroughly been defeated and factually proved wrong by muitiple posters. You got nothign, zip, zero, zlitch and pottying about your claims being destroyed one by one wont change that.

we have debated and the fact is you lost and were easily defeated by facts

So your options are:
A.) post with intellectual integrity and honesty and admit to the fact morals are subjective
B.) contine to lie, deflect and deny that fact while multiple posters continue to point out your failed claims, lies and destroy your "arguments" at every turn much to our delight.

Please let us know which you pick, either way your claims and op failed, thanks!
 
Quag said:
No it doesn't
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Show it doesn't. Don't just keep saying it doesn't. Debate.

Quag said:
If they are of the mind they are subjective your failure to comprehend this is your problem.
Your refusal to accept the definitions of terms is also your problem
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Every thought man has is of the mind. According to this constipated view of yours, everything is subjective, including science and boxing.
 
AGENT J said:
Translation: you still cant present one honest, logical, factual argument based on intellectual merit that impacts the proven facts in anyway what so ever. So you desperately try (and completely fail) to deflect but it wont work. Fact remains all your clams and arguments have been thoroughly been defeated and factually proved wrong by muitiple posters. You got nothign, zip, zero, zlitch and pottying about your claims being destroyed one by one wont change that.

we have debated and the fact is you lost and were easily defeated by facts

So your options are:
A.) post with intellectual integrity and honesty and admit to the fact morals are subjective
B.) contine to lie, deflect and deny that fact while multiple posters continue to point out your failed claims, lies and destroy your "arguments" at every turn much to our delight.

Please let us know which you pick, either way your claims and op failed, thanks!
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Oy! More noise pollution. Engage my argument -- it's reposted up in @1167 -- or get off the pot.
 
Angel said:
Show it doesn't. Don't just keep saying it doesn't. Debate.
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No you must show that it does.
Nothing in that "argument" shows morals to be anything other than of the mind


Every thought man has is of the mind. According to this constipated view of yours, everything is subjective, including science and boxing.
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You seem to be confused between thinking of something and that thing itself.
Thoughts are subjective, actions aren't. Morality isn't an action it is a thought value we can ascribe to that action, itt remains forever in the mind. Science experiments boxing punches these are no longer in the mind
 
Angel said:
Oy! More noise pollution. Engage my argument -- it's reposted up in @1167 -- or get off the pot.
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Translation: you still cant present one honest, logical, factual argument based on intellectual merit that impacts the proven facts in anyway what so ever. So you desperately try (and completely fail) to deflect but it wont work. Fact remains all your clams and arguments have been thoroughly been defeated and factually proved wrong by muitiple posters. You got nothign, zip, zero, zlitch and pottying about your claims being destroyed one by one wont change that.

we have debated and the fact is you lost and were easily defeated by facts

So your options are:
A.) post with intellectual integrity and honesty and admit to the fact morals are subjective
B.) contine to lie, deflect and deny that fact while multiple posters continue to point out your failed claims, lies and destroy your "arguments" at every turn much to our delight.

Please let us know which you pick, either way your claims and op failed, thanks!
 
Quag said:
I could be possible but I wouldn't bet on it
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SO far just more denial and lies while facts continue to win again and again.
 
Quag said:
No you must show that it does.
Nothing in that "argument" shows morals to be anything other than of the mind
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I show it in the argument reposted at 1167
You are incorrect about what the argument contains. I suggest re-reading it.
Quag said:
You seem to be confused between thinking of something and that thing itself.
Thoughts are subjective, actions aren't. Morality isn't an action it is a thought value we can ascribe to that action, itt remains forever in the mind. Science experiments boxing punches these are no longer in the mind
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I'm not in the least confused. You might want to examine your own understanding here, though.
All experience is in the mind. That's what you rely on to pigeonhole morality as subjective. Well, science and boxing and all action are experiences and so, according to you, all subjective. That's the absurdity which your view arrives at.
 
AGENT J said:
Translation: you still cant present one honest, logical, factual argument based on intellectual merit that impacts the proven facts in anyway what so ever. So you desperately try (and completely fail) to deflect but it wont work. Fact remains all your clams and arguments have been thoroughly been defeated and factually proved wrong by muitiple posters. You got nothign, zip, zero, zlitch and pottying about your claims being destroyed one by one wont change that.

we have debated and the fact is you lost and were easily defeated by facts

So your options are:
A.) post with intellectual integrity and honesty and admit to the fact morals are subjective
B.) contine to lie, deflect and deny that fact while multiple posters continue to point out your failed claims, lies and destroy your "arguments" at every turn much to our delight.

Please let us know which you pick, either way your claims and op failed, thanks!
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Stop the noise pollution! Engage my argument, or get off the pot.
 
Angel said:
I show it in the argument reposted at 1167
You are incorrect about what the argument contains. I suggest re-reading it.

I'm not in the least confused. You might want to examine your own understanding here, though.
All experience is in the mind. That's what you rely on to pigeonhole morality as subjective. Well, science and boxing and all action are experiences and so, according to you, all subjective. That's the absurdity which your view arrives at.
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All experience is physical and is taken in through the functioning senses and processed in the physical brain. Experience is only possible during physical existence in physical reality.
 
Angel said:
Stop the noise pollution! Engage my argument, or get off the pot.
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You pick B again LMAO!!

so i will continue to point out the fact that all your arguments lost.

so here we are at the same point . . . you still cant present one honest, logical, factual argument based on intellectual merit that impacts the proven facts in anyway what so ever. So you desperately try (and completely fail) to deflect but it wont work. Fact remains all your clams and arguments have been thoroughly been defeated and factually proved wrong by muitiple posters. You got nothign, zip, zero, zlitch and pottying about your claims being destroyed one by one wont change that.

we have debated and the fact is you lost and were easily defeated by facts

So your options are:
A.) post with intellectual integrity and honesty and admit to the fact morals are subjective
B.) contine to lie, deflect and deny that fact while multiple posters continue to point out your failed claims, lies and destroy your "arguments" at every turn much to our delight.

Please let us know which you pick, either way your claims and op failed, thanks!
 
gfm7175 said:
Facts are NOT universal truths... Facts are shorthand predicate that is accepted by all parties. If one party were to reject a "fact", then that "fact" returns to being an argument. An argument is a set of predicates and a conclusion.[/QUOTE}
Please define what you mean by 'universal truth'. Please show a source for your definition. Then, show how you know that a 'truth' is 'universal'.. based on the definition (and the source for that definition) .
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devildavid said:
All experience is physical and is taken in through the functioning senses and processed in the physical brain. Experience is only possible during physical existence in physical reality.
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Your physical has been discredited several times over in this forum. That you fail to recognize this is yet another nail in its conceptual coffin.
 
RAMOSS said:
gfm7175 said:
Facts are NOT universal truths... Facts are shorthand predicate that is accepted by all parties. If one party were to reject a "fact", then that "fact" returns to being an argument. An argument is a set of predicates and a conclusion.
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Please define what you mean by 'universal truth'. Please show a source for your definition. Then, show how you know that a 'truth' is 'universal'.. based on the definition (and the source for that definition) .
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Another confused soul.
You ask gfm what HE means. Then you ask him for a source.
Listen, pilgrim, the unexamined post is not worth posting.
That's a paraphrase of a famous line credited to Socrates by Plato.
And FYI the source of everything I mean in this post of mine is me. (I'd say "is I," but do not wish to confuse you any more than, judging from your posts, you already are.)

Namaste
 
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Angel said:
I show it in the argument reposted at 1167
You are incorrect about what the argument contains. I suggest re-reading it.
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You are incorrect in what you think you have done with your "argument"
It is no way shows that morals are anything other than in the mind

I'm not in the least confused. You might want to examine your own understanding here, though.
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You are completely confused
All experience is in the mind. That's what you rely on to pigeonhole morality as subjective.
Well, science and boxing and all action are experiences and so, according to you, all subjective.
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You are doing it again.
Experience is subjective, What a boxer feels in the ring is subjective, what a spectator feels is subjective, the actions of the gloves hitting the opponent is not subjective the experience is.
Science is based on objective measurements, there are no objective measurements for morality.
You may add experience to the list of terms you fail to comprehend.


That's the absurdity which your view arrives at.
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Yes your views are absurd, try learning the meaning of words before posting
 
Angel said:
Stop the noise pollution! Engage my argument, or get off the pot.
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Stop the pollution learn the meaning of the terms or get off the pot!
 
RAMOSS said:
Please define what you mean by 'universal truth'.
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A truth that applies throughout actuality. One example of a universal truth would be from the closed functional system of mathematics, using base-10 mathematics, 2+2=4.

RAMOSS said:
Please show a source for your definition.
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You asked ME for a definition... You didn't ask whatever mystery source I may come up with, and that you may or may not deem authoritative, for a definition...

RAMOSS said:
Then, show how you know that a 'truth' is 'universal'.. based on the definition (and the source for that definition) .
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:eek:uch:
 
Quag said:
You are incorrect in what you think you have done with your "argument"
It is no way shows that morals are anything other than in the mind


You are completely confused

You are doing it again.
Experience is subjective, What a boxer feels in the ring is subjective, what a spectator feels is subjective, the actions of the gloves hitting the opponent is not subjective the experience is.
Science is based on objective measurements, there are no objective measurements for morality.
You may add experience to the list of terms you fail to comprehend.




Yes your views are absurd, try learning the meaning of words before posting
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Actions are actions because they are perceived as actions by an observer or experienced as actions by an actor. You've painted yourself into a corner, my friend, with your ad hoc subjective idealism. You clearly don't even understand the philosophical position your view of the subjectivity of morality binds you to. EssE est percipi. Ring a bell? I doubt it.
Now, either engage my dismantling of your dictionary definition re=posted at 1167 or retire from the field. As it is, you're just posting "No, no, a thousand times No" over and over again, presumably striving for the thousand mark. Debate, man.
 
gfm7175 said:
A truth that applies throughout actuality. One example of a universal truth would be from the closed functional system of mathematics, using base-10 mathematics, 2+2=4.


You asked ME for a definition... You didn't ask whatever mystery source I may come up with, and that you may or may not deem authoritative, for a definition...


:eek:uch:
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You seem to want ot argue by 'let's add an irrealvent adjective. Truth is Truth. Adding 'universal' on it is unneeded and unnecessary verbiage to try to look important. When I see people doing that... that's when I know to get out the Fluff and Nonsense detector.
 
One aspect where morality and a belief in god clash

Slavery, today the vast majority of Americans believe slavery is immoral. Yet, according to the bible it is acceptable, and the bible was used to justify slavery in the US for a long period of time. Morality is a social construct, not one created by god/gods.
 
RAMOSS said:
You seem to want ot argue by 'let's add an irrealvent adjective. Truth is Truth. Adding 'universal' on it is unneeded and unnecessary verbiage to try to look important. When I see people doing that... that's when I know to get out the Fluff and Nonsense detector.
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Absolutely false, and I will show you why, RAMOSS...

"Hinduism is a majority religion in my country".


That may be a true assertion, or that may be a false assertion, depending on where the person making that assertion is located...

In the USA, that would not be truth... In Nepal, that would be truth.


However, with my 2+2=4 assertion, that truth is not just a truth, but a universal truth, because the truth of the assertion doesn't concern itself with where one is located... Whether in India, or in the USA, that assertion is truth.
 
gfm7175 said:
Absolutely false, and I will show you why, RAMOSS...

"Hinduism is a majority religion in my country".


That may be a true assertion, or that may be a false assertion, depending on where the person making that assertion is located...

In the USA, that would not be truth... In Nepal, that would be truth.


However, with my 2+2=4 assertion, that truth is not just a truth, but a universal truth, because the truth of the assertion doesn't concern itself with where one is located... Whether in India, or in the USA, that assertion is truth.
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YEt, adding the word ultimate' changes th e'truth factor' of it not one bit at all. It's either true or false. You might need further information to determine the truth of it, but it's either true or false. YOu have to define 'my country'..
 
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