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Satan - What is his purpose in life ?

ashurbanipal said:
There is a great deal of misunderstanding about Satan in the world. We might almost say that it's the cause of more suffering than any other. If you want to understand Satan, you should study the writings of the people who have actually met him--these include many saints and prophets in the western traditions. The few Islamic authors who have done so have also spoken most openly about him, and been executed for their pains. Certain revered Christian and Jewish worshippers have also perceived the truth directly, though they stated it in different terms.

When one poster earlier in this thread said that God created Satan with full foreknowledge of all he would become, and therefore Satan must be playing on the same team as God, that's a very good insight. I will say no more.
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You do realize that Satan is a fictional character.
 
Dragonfly said:
Please, explain. Context is rather important when making such claims.
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Hmmmm...if I said I had met, say, Joe Walsh, what would you understand by that claim? Presumably, you would understand that there was a point at which my spatial and temporal locational history coincided within a certain tolerance with that of Joe Walsh, and that we acknowledged the existence of one another and exchanged words. Right?

That is exactly what I mean in this case.
 
tosca1 said:
Review our exchanges, Tim. You're all over the place.
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No. I have consistently pointed out that you have no way of telling that you are following the religion of God (the good guy) or Satan masquerading as God.

If you can show any way you would be able to tell the difference do tell!
 
ashurbanipal said:
Hmmmm...if I said I had met, say, Joe Walsh, what would you understand by that claim? Presumably, you would understand that there was a point at which my spatial and temporal locational history coincided within a certain tolerance with that of Joe Walsh, and that we acknowledged the existence of one another and exchanged words. Right?

That is exactly what I mean in this case.
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I'll give you credit for a very creative non-reply.
That's about it.

Again, please explain your "meeting with Satan".
 
Tim the plumber said:

No. I have consistently pointed out that you have no way of telling that you are following the religion of God (the good guy) or Satan masquerading as God.

If you can show any way you would be able to tell the difference do tell!
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....and I'm saying that you're not thinking things through. Your questions fall flat. They're so juvenile.

As an example: if as you say Satan authored the Book - why would he finish it off by predicting his own demise?
You do understand that in the Bible, Satan is the loser, right? Why on earth would he end his own Book like that? What's the point?

Why does he have to give us a choice between good and evil - when it's so easy to do evil? Why would he create an imaginary God that represents good? What's the point of that?


If he did - well, look how many are being born again! Millions are buying into his imaginary God.
So.......... not only is Satan a dingbat, but he's an epic fail as well! :mrgreen:
 
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Someone mentioned the similarities between Jehovah and Lucifer, and about why Jehovah does not simply role-play Lucifer if Lord Jehovah really is that powerful of an entity, and I had to reply. I also noticed the similarities between Jehovah and Ahura Mazda, as was also mentioned. I think that the "god phenomenon" is merely ourselves, or our Collective Unconscious - which has various masks it likes to wear which we regard as "archetypes," and these archetypes have been personified by cultures and spirituality throughout history. There is a kernel of truth in all religions of the world, but to take any one as the absolute truth - including Satan, which is merely the Archetype of Self - is paramount fallacy.
 
Dragonfly said:
I'll give you credit for a very creative non-reply.
That's about it.

Again, please explain your "meeting with Satan".
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I'm not sure what you don't understand. I'm saying I met Satan in the same way as one might meet any other person--that is, physically, historically, in what we think of as our common spacetime. I have also said that I'm not going to say much more about this, and directed whoever cares to follow it up to at least a certain kind of resource. Anyone diligent enough with the program will be able to meet Satan in just the same way. Plenty of Christian saints, Sufis, and Jewish rabbis have explained in plainest terms how to meet Satan to those who know how to read. Unfortunately, not very many people really know how to read these days...
 
tosca1 said:
....and I'm saying that you're not thinking things through. Your questions fall flat. They're so juvenile.

As an example: if as you say Satan authored the Book - why would he finish it off by predicting his own demise?
You do understand that in the Bible, Satan is the loser, right? Why on earth would he end his own Book like that? What's the point?

Why does he have to give us a choice between good and evil - when it's so easy to do evil? Why would he create an imaginary God that represents good? What's the point of that?


If he did - well, look how many are being born again! Millions are buying into his imaginary God.
So.......... not only is Satan a dingbat, but he's an epic fail as well! :mrgreen:
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Still no way of showing why this religion with all the power given to bunch of pedofile abusers and con artists is the right one then?

I'm confident that if such a thing as Satan were to exist he would be capable of painting himself in a bad light to achieve greater gains. Heck the supposed good guy deliberately had himself/his son nailed up to achieve his ends. Sounds ultra mild compared to that.
 
tosca1 said:
....and I'm saying that you're not thinking things through. Your questions fall flat. They're so juvenile.

As an example: if as you say Satan authored the Book - why would he finish it off by predicting his own demise?
You do understand that in the Bible, Satan is the loser, right? Why on earth would he end his own Book like that? What's the point?

Why does he have to give us a choice between good and evil - when it's so easy to do evil? Why would he create an imaginary God that represents good? What's the point of that?


If he did - well, look how many are being born again! Millions are buying into his imaginary God.
So.......... not only is Satan a dingbat, but he's an epic fail as well! :mrgreen:
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Satan wants Tim's sympathy vote...I'd say he's got it...;)
 
ashurbanipal said:
I'm not sure what you don't understand. I'm saying I met Satan in the same way as one might meet any other person--that is, physically, historically, in what we think of as our common spacetime. I have also said that I'm not going to say much more about this, and directed whoever cares to follow it up to at least a certain kind of resource. Anyone diligent enough with the program will be able to meet Satan in just the same way. Plenty of Christian saints, Sufis, and Jewish rabbis have explained in plainest terms how to meet Satan to those who know how to read. Unfortunately, not very many people really know how to read these days...
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You did not meet Satan. Satan is a fictional character. Your claim is an impossibility. Have you ever met Stephen Dedalus?
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Someone mentioned the similarities between Jehovah and Lucifer, and about why Jehovah does not simply role-play Lucifer if Lord Jehovah really is that powerful of an entity, and I had to reply. I also noticed the similarities between Jehovah and Ahura Mazda, as was also mentioned. I think that the "god phenomenon" is merely ourselves, or our Collective Unconscious - which has various masks it likes to wear which we regard as "archetypes," and these archetypes have been personified by cultures and spirituality throughout history. There is a kernel of truth in all religions of the world, but to take any one as the absolute truth - including Satan, which is merely the Archetype of Self - is paramount fallacy.
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There is no Collective Unconscious. Jung just made this up.
 
devildavid said:
You did not meet Satan. Satan is a fictional character. Your claim is an impossibility. Have you ever met Stephen Dedalus?
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You are not in the best epistemic position to evaluate whether Satan is fictional or not. I am in a better position.

I don't think I've ever met Stephen Dedalus. I don't know who that is.
 
ashurbanipal said:
You are not in the best epistemic position to evaluate whether Satan is fictional or not. I am in a better position.

I don't think I've ever met Stephen Dedalus. I don't know who that is.
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He is a fictional character. I have never been in an epistemic position and neither have you because that means absolutely nothing. So your claim of being in a better position is a claim with no evidence to back it and nothing to compare it against to indicate it is better. It is a fiction on top of a fiction.
 
devildavid said:
He is a fictional character.
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You have, at best, theoretical reasons for thinking this is the case (and really, I doubt that your reasons even rise to the status of theory). I have experiential reasons for thinking it's false. Ergo, I am in a better epistemic position to evaluate this claim than you are.

devildavid said:
I have never been in an epistemic position and neither have you because that means absolutely nothing.
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Sure it does. Do some reading in epistemology for a while and you're bound to come across the phrase (or better yet, just take a few classes in the subject). Who is better placed to know what it's like to eat a pear--someone who has never even heard of a pear, or someone who has eaten a pear before? That's an example of epistemic position--the person who has eaten a pear before has been and is in a position to acquire and possess the relevant knowledge, while someone who has never even heard of a pear (much less come into contact with one) is in no such position, and hence is in comparatively much poorer position.
 
ashurbanipal said:
You have, at best, theoretical reasons for thinking this is the case (and really, I doubt that your reasons even rise to the status of theory). I have experiential reasons for thinking it's false. Ergo, I am in a better epistemic position to evaluate this claim than you are.



Sure it does. Do some reading in epistemology for a while and you're bound to come across the phrase (or better yet, just take a few classes in the subject). Who is better placed to know what it's like to eat a pear--someone who has never even heard of a pear, or someone who has eaten a pear before? That's an example of epistemic position--the person who has eaten a pear before has been and is in a position to acquire and possess the relevant knowledge, while someone who has never even heard of a pear (much less come into contact with one) is in no such position, and hence is in comparatively much poorer position.
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Meeting Satan is not comparable to eating a pear. If you claimed to eat one, I know it to be possible, whether or not I had ever heard of a pear. Eating something is something that all humans engage in or they don't stay alive too long. Meeting Satan is imposssible, because there is nothing supernatural at all so there are no superntural entities that we can meet. All such claims are rightly met with skepticism, despite what you think you know that others do not. Your anecdotal evidence is worth even less than more realistic anecdotal evidence usually is. And anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless.
 
devildavid said:
Meeting Satan is not comparable to eating a pear. If you claimed to eat one, I know it to be possible, whether or not I had ever heard of a pear.
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It's questionable what you would think possible about something you'd never heard of.

devildavid said:
Eating something is something that all humans engage in or they don't stay alive too long.
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Sure.

devildavid said:
Meeting Satan is imposssible, because there is nothing supernatural at all so there are no superntural entities that we can meet. All such claims are rightly met with skepticism, despite what you think you know that others do not. Your anecdotal evidence is worth even less than more realistic anecdotal evidence usually is. And anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless.
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Anecdotal evidence is not worthless; so-called skeptics (who usually have metaphysical positions of their own to push, just as you have) use that as a kind of slogan, but if anyone (skeptics included) were actually to practice this evenly, their lives would quickly become intolerable.

In any event, your reasons for thinking something is impossible are rather thin here. On the other hand, you're hardly going to convince me of what you're claiming. I know what happened--I was there. Now, I certainly don't think I'll convince you to abandon your position--but then, I'm not trying to do that.
 
Elvira said:
No, Satan is NOT doing God's work...Satan is God's enemy, who wishes to take everyone he possibly can down with him so that definitely makes him our enemy as well...Matt. 13:25,39
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Gods not all powerful?
 
Satan exists because god exists. No Satan...no evil....then no good, either. Can't have one without the other.
 
KevinKohler said:
Gods not all powerful?
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All powerful does not mean He does not give his creatures free will...sure He could have wiped Satan out the moment he rebelled but what would that have solved? The issue of rebellion could have come up again, so God had to allow time to show all of creation that He, God, knows what is best for what he creates...that takes time...
 
Elvira said:
All powerful does not mean He does not give his creatures free will...sure He could have wiped Satan out the moment he rebelled but what would that have solved? The issue of rebellion could have come up again, so God had to allow time to show all of creation that He, God, knows what is best for what he creates...that takes time...
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It takes time because God WANTS it to. All powerful means, if he wanted, we could have learned all these lessons in 6 minutes. Or seconds. Or, in this case, time immemorial.
 
ashurbanipal said:
In any event, your reasons for thinking something is impossible are rather thin here. On the other hand, you're hardly going to convince me of what you're claiming. I know what happened--I was there. Now, I certainly don't think I'll convince you to abandon your position--but then, I'm not trying to do that.
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This is what my little boy tells me about the boogie man hiding in his closet. Am I on thin ice to dismiss the possibility and to focus instead on the psychological/cultural reasons why he thinks that?
 
Dragonfly said:
Please, explain. Context is rather important when making such claims.
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I've never met him, but I saw him once.

He looks just like the flying spaghetti monster. Except with better hair.
 
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