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Atheism continuing to die out worldwide

Rinzai said:
According to statistics by Pew Research and others, atheism seems to be continuing to die out-worldwide, having declined from 4.5% to 2% between 1970 and 2010 - and expected to drop to 1.8% by 2020.
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That's based on people who are willing and able to self-identify as atheist, not necessarily the people who actually are. There are plenty of reasons someone who doesn't believe in any gods won't use the term for themselves, if they're aware it exists at all. One reason might be videos like this which, despite the generic "not all atheists" proviso at the start, consists of an aggressive attack on atheists by focusing exclusively on one or two very negative examples.
 
Rinzai said:
Um no, Jediism isn't a "joke" - it's an actual new religious movement with an actual mission statement, here's what they believe:

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org

In the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it.
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty.
In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice.
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.
In the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.
In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.
In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures.
In the separation of religion and government and the freedoms of speech, association and expression.

So unless you're going to argue that any new religious movement such as Scientology, or Wicca isn't a "real religion" then your argument fails.


You haven't shown any facts to back that up, so that seems like a statement of faith... perhaps in the flying spaghetti monster?
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Again you desperation is more than amusing. I can link you to the same type of aims by the fsm religion.

https://pastafarian.kiwi/doctrine/

Go on give me a reason to fall on the floor laughing at you by presenting your reason as to why the spaghetti monster is a valid religion.
 
HonestJoe said:
That's based on people who are willing and able to self-identify as atheist, not necessarily the people who actually are. There are plenty of reasons someone who doesn't believe in any gods won't use the term for themselves, if they're aware it exists at all. One reason might be videos like this which, despite the generic "not all atheists" proviso at the start, consists of an aggressive attack on atheists by focusing exclusively on one or two very negative examples.
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Well if one uses that argument, that would also not take into account people who are closet theists, therefore statistics, such as those in Western European nations of those who self identify as atheists could be said to be unreliable as well.
 
zyzygy said:
I live in Belgium. Nobody I know goes to church or even mentions god or religion. It plays no part in our lives. I assume that everyone I know is an atheist.
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Well that's people "you know" - even in Belgium according to these statistics, people who identify as atheists or nonreligious are only 31% of the population, so even there they are still a minority statistically, though a fairly large one compared to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium

Plus if your argument is, in a broader sense, that being religious or spiritual is contingent only on "church attendance" or directly mentioning "god", then I see problems with that.

Since that wouldn't account for a "spiritual but nonreligious" category who don't openly attend a church. Or religious which don't directly mention a "god", such as forms of Buddhism.

So I think unless someone can come up with a consistent definition that distinguishes "atheist" from religious or spiritual to begin with then the arguments are flawed.
 
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Rinzai said:
Secular humanism is a philosophy or life stance that embraces human reason, ethics, social justice, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition as the bases of morality and decision making.

It's an atheistic philosophy, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
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It does not require atheism, yes
 
devildavid said:
It does not require atheism, yes
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It rejects "supernaturalism", so I'd assume it requires atheism or at least agnosticism. But I don't see how theism could be compatible with secular humanism as a personal philosophy.
 
Rinzai said:

The are institutionalized forms of atheism with specific doctrines, such as the American Humanist Association.

https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility.


Regardless, secular humanism has a particular set of ethical principles such as human dignity, rights, social and environmental responsibility:

An atheist who embraces nihilism such as Max Stirner, or Anton LeVay who rejects humanism, progress, human rights, wouldn't be compatible with secular Humanism.
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Secular humanism is an affirmative value because it has an entire philosophical background. Atheism is just the absence of a belief. There's nothing else to it.

Humanists may often be atheists but you can't claim that secular humanism is the doctrine of atheism. It isn't.

Now... I can see where this is going, and I'm not going to get into another debate with someone about how atheism is something vs. nothing.
 
Rinzai said:
Well if one uses that argument, that would also not take into account people who are closet theists, therefore statistics, such as those in Western European nations of those who self identify as atheists could be said to be unreliable as well.
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Oh, there are several reasons those kind of statistics are of limited use, I just pointed out ones that were immediately relevant. :)

Based on personal experience, I suspect the vast majority of people are agnostic if they really thought it through and were completely honest with themselves. I do know lots of people will tick a religion box on surveys or censuses out of habit or tradition even though they do absolutely nothing religious in their daily lives. Who knows what they actually believe?
 
Rinzai said:
Well that's people "you know" - even in Belgium according to these statistics, people who identify as atheists or nonreligious are only 31% of the population, so even there they are still a minority statistically, though a fairly large one compared to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium

Plus if your argument is, in a broader sense, that being religious or spiritual is contingent only on "church attendance" or directly mentioning "god", then I see problems with that.

Since that wouldn't account for a "spiritual but nonreligious" category who don't openly attend a church. Or religious which don't directly mention a "god", such as forms of Buddhism.

So I think unless someone can come up with a consistent definition that distinguishes "atheist" from religious or spiritual to begin with then the arguments are flawed.
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Helps if you've lived there. As a rule of thumb, europe is a lot less religious than the United States. I suspect their history of religious war has something to do with it.
 
If atheism is declining, it's because those in the third world are passing on their superstitions to their 12 children.
 
Rinzai said:
According to statistics by Pew Research and others, atheism seems to be continuing to die out-worldwide, having declined from 4.5% to 2% between 1970 and 2010 - and expected to drop to 1.8% by 2020.

If it continues to decline by at least 0.2% per decade, then atheism may be extinct by the end of the 21st century, superseded globally by Christianity, Islam, eastern religions, as well as likely a diverse marketplace of novel religious and spiritual ideas in the more diverse West - from New Age, to neopaganism.

The Economist apparently pinpoints both economics in the USA and Western Europe as well as possibly low reproductive rates - which does make some sense, given that which can't compete on the evolutionary playing field has little chance of sustaining itself on a national or global level.

While "white trash atheism" may have experienced a slight uptick in popularity in the West during the early 2000s, it seems this was merely an anomaly which didn't detract from atheism's declining statistics globally, and isn't considered "edgy" anymore - much like "nu metal".

This video does a good job documenting the statistics:
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utter nonsense Atheism is far from declining in Scotland and the EU .... in my country Scotland over 30% consider themselves Atheists that from a country that 4 decades ago took pride in being 80% Presbyterian
 
Go ahead and continue to believe atheism is dying world wide.

Disregarding reality when it contradicts your beliefs is a defining trait of the religious, so trying to tell you otherwise is a waste of time.
 
Makes no difference...has no bearing on God's will being done...
 
Elvira said:
Makes no difference...has no bearing on God's will being done...
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if god truly existed we wouldn't be posting he would have wiped us out long ago ... as a species all we have done throughout our history is to kill and destroy, as well as pollute the land, sea and air
 
Godric1970 said:
if god truly existed we wouldn't be posting he would have wiped us out long ago ... as a species all we have done throughout our history is to kill and destroy, as well as pollute the land, sea and air
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You are assuming that isn't his will, for all we know this could be God
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Rinzai said:
Well that's people "you know" - even in Belgium according to these statistics, people who identify as atheists or nonreligious are only 31% of the population, so even there they are still a minority statistically, though a fairly large one compared to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium

Plus if your argument is, in a broader sense, that being religious or spiritual is contingent only on "church attendance" or directly mentioning "god", then I see problems with that.

Since that wouldn't account for a "spiritual but nonreligious" category who don't openly attend a church. Or religious which don't directly mention a "god", such as forms of Buddhism.

So I think unless someone can come up with a consistent definition that distinguishes "atheist" from religious or spiritual to begin with then the arguments are flawed.
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For how long have you lived in Belgium?
 
zyzygy said:
For how long have you lived in Belgium?
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For about as long as you've belonged to a Christian Church, I suspect. Never stopped you from opinionating on Christianity, has it? ;)
 
soylentgreen said:
Again you desperation is more than amusing. I can link you to the same type of aims by the fsm religion.

https://pastafarian.kiwi/doctrine/

Go on give me a reason to fall on the floor laughing at you by presenting your reason as to why the spaghetti monster is a valid religion.
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Pastafarian was to my knowledge a satirical religion - Jediism isn't satirical, it's meant to be a serious new religious movement, like Wicca, Scientology, neopaganism, etc though some people assumed it was a joke.
 
Rinzai said:
Pastafarian was to my knowledge a satirical religion - Jediism isn't satirical, it's meant to be a serious new religious movement, like Wicca, Scientology, neopaganism, etc though some people assumed it was a joke.
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But when it comes to religion, how can you tell the difference?
 
Rinzai said:
Pastafarian was to my knowledge a satirical religion - Jediism isn't satirical, it's meant to be a serious new religious movement, like Wicca, Scientology, neopaganism, etc though some people assumed it was a joke.
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Bull****. Jedism began as a prank by univeristy students.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon
The Jedi census phenomenon is a grassroots movement that was initiated in 2001 for residents of a number of English-speaking countries, urging them to record their religion as "Jedi" or "Jedi Knight" (after the quasi-religious order of Jedi Knights in the fictional Star Wars universe) on the national census
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How laughable that you do not recognise a joke when you see it. You make it clear as to why you might think atheism is in decline. It is because you do not recognise it when it is laughing at you in your face.
 
soylentgreen said:
Bull****. Jedism began as a prank by univeristy students.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon


How laughable that you do not recognise a joke when you see it. You make it clear as to why you might think atheism is in decline. It is because you do not recognise it when it is laughing at you in your face.
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Nope, some people may have written it in as a prank, but it was related to an actual new religious movement called Jediism. They don't literally believe in Jedi or the force, but have a set of spiritual or moral principles inspired by the Star Wars films:

So no, it's an actual religion:

https://www.thoughtco.com/jedi-religion-jediism-95690

The Jedi Religion's biggest hurdle in being accepted as a relevant religion is the fact that it originated in an acknowledged work of fiction.

Such objectors generally have a very literal approach to religion in which religious and historical teachings are supposed to be identical. Objectors also often expect all religions to originate from a prophet who knowingly speaks a divine truth, even though a vast number of religions do not have such neat and tidy origins.

The Jedi Religion gained a lot of news coverage after an intense email campaign encouraged people in the UK to write in Jedi as their religion on the national census. This included those who did not believe in it and who thought the results might be amusing.
 
Rinzai said:
Nope, some people may have written it in as a prank, but it was related to an actual new religious movement called Jediism. They don't literally believe in Jedi or the force, but have a set of spiritual or moral principles inspired by the Star Wars films:

So no, it's an actual religion:

https://www.thoughtco.com/jedi-religion-jediism-95690

The Jedi Religion's biggest hurdle in being accepted as a relevant religion is the fact that it originated in an acknowledged work of fiction.

Such objectors generally have a very literal approach to religion in which religious and historical teachings are supposed to be identical. Objectors also often expect all religions to originate from a prophet who knowingly speaks a divine truth, even though a vast number of religions do not have such neat and tidy origins.

The Jedi Religion gained a lot of news coverage after an intense email campaign encouraged people in the UK to write in Jedi as their religion on the national census. This included those who did not believe in it and who thought the results might be amusing.
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Another reason not to take religion seriously.
 
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