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God and The Meaning of Life

Angel said:
"Larger than" is an idea based on perception and my intuition sees no need for language or math in this perception-based idea.
Now we seem to be going off on a tangent here and we risk losing the train of thought.
Did you not say that the concept of God had to await the development of language?
This, I believe, is our bone of contention.
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Yes that is what I am saying.
 
Angel said:
Of course I read what came after "nah," but saying "we're just kind of here because" either says nothing or hints at some reason that is unspecified.
You're expanded version says both man and God are just here for no reason.
Do you mean no reason, full stop, or no reason that you can see?
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seems to me its just a simple truth things ultimately exist and are a certain way just because that is how it is gods dont change that so i dont see what meaning they can bring to the table

so i mean at some point you just run out of reasons and things just are as they are because they happen to be that way
 
Angel said:
Without God, indeed without the concept of God, the meaning of the world, and with it the meaning of life, becomes nugatory.
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That is a purely subjective view.

Dragonfly said:
Regardless of god or no god, the meaning of life does not change.
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Angel said:
That's impossible. A logical impossibility.
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It is neither impossible nor a logical impossibility.

The meaning -- the purpose -- of life is to reproduce to perpetuate the species.

Every single life-form that ever existed on Earth has evolved for one purpose, and that is to reproduce to perpetuate the species. Secondarily, every life-form on Earth has evolved to take advantage of its environment or ecosystem in furtherance of its primary purpose, which is to reproduce to perpetuate the species.

That is objectively, the meaning of life.

Subjectively, you can whimsically attach any number of bizarre meanings, like "nugatory", but that has no bearing on objective reality.
 
Remove humans from the occasion.


Now what's the meaning of life?
 
Quag said:
Humans existed for a long time before the concept of God(s), were all their lives meaningless?
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And humans did not always exist nor will they always continue to exist. So it seems that meaning is much more dependent upon the existence of humans than it is upon any ideas of god.
 
Angel said:
And you'd be right if that were what I'm saying.
But I'm not saying that you can't find meaning for your particular life in the particulars of your individual life.
I'm saying that you can only find meaning for life in general, meaning for everything that lives, without at least the concept of God.
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There is no meaning for life in general.

Concepts do not create a general meaning for life.
 
roughdraft274 said:
But regardless of whether it's pretty driftwood created by natural means or a sculpture that someone created, I can appreciate it all in the same manner and it makes no difference to me.
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I understand.
Namaste.
 
devildavid said:
And humans did not always exist nor will they always continue to exist. So it seems that meaning is much more dependent upon the existence of humans than it is upon any ideas of god.
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What do you mean by meaning in your second sentence.
Your first sentence seems irrelevant unless your second sentence does a bit more work than it does at the moment.
What is the connection between human existence and meaning -- that's what you need to think through here.
 
Mircea said:
That is a purely subjective view.
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So what? Every view is subjective. That is the nature of views.
Mircea said:
It is neither impossible nor a logical impossibility.
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It is logically impossible; therefore impossible.
Mircea said:
The meaning -- the purpose -- of life is to reproduce to perpetuate the species.
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Says who?
Mircea said:
Every single life-form that ever existed on Earth has evolved for one purpose, and that is to reproduce to perpetuate the species. Secondarily, every life-form on Earth has evolved to take advantage of its environment or ecosystem in furtherance of its primary purpose, which is to reproduce to perpetuate the species.

That is objectively, the meaning of life.
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You reduce the meaning of life to biological purpose. Your view amounts to mo more than this: the meaning of life is the reproduction of life. This is scientific reductionism. Science can tell us nothing about the meaning of life.

Subjectively, you can whimsically attach any number of bizarre meanings, like "nugatory", but that has no bearing on objective reality.[/QUOTE]
There's no escaping subjectivity, Mircea. I'm afraid your vaunted "objective reality" is just over-privileged subjectivity.
 
blarg said:
seems to me its just a simple truth
things ultimately exist and are a certain way just because that is how it is
gods dont change that
so i dont see what meaning they can bring to the table

so i mean at some point you just run out of reasons and things just are as they are because they happen to be that way
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You mean?
Do things mean?
Does God mean?
Does your indifference mean anything?
 
Quag said:
Well when atheist have stated that their lives have meaning, what more do you want?
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When theists have stated that God gives their lives meaning, what more do you want?
 
Angel said:
You mean?
Do things mean?
Does God mean?
Does your indifference mean anything?
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so how adding a god add to the meaning of life if the god has no meaning and just is?
 
Quag said:
It is when you have no actual language

Since there is no language there is no way to convey it. I think that is pretty simple, same as a for a frog
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Looks like we're heading Nowhere once again here, Quag. Both the origin of language and the origin of religion are unknown. There's no point in mooting intuitions.
 
blarg said:
so how adding a god add to the meaning of life if the god has no meaning and just is?
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What is the meaning of meaning as you use the concept?
There is a link in the OP that may prove helpful on this score.
 
Angel said:
What is the meaning of meaning as you use the concept?
There is a link in the OP that may prove helpful on this score.
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1.1mass noun Implied or explicit significance.

sig·nif·i·cance
siɡˈnifikəns/Submit
noun
1.
the quality of being worthy of attention; importance.

that kind

hows a god that just happens to exist give you more of that compared to people just caring about stuff?
 
blarg said:
1.1mass noun Implied or explicit significance.

sig·nif·i·cance
siɡˈnifikəns/Submit
noun
1.
the quality of being worthy of attention; importance.

that kind

hows a god that just happens to exist give you more of that compared to people just caring about stuff?
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It looks to me like we're talking past each other, talking about different meanings of meaning.
You are taking the concept to mean "importance"; I'm using the concept to mean "intentionality."
Look at the link provided in the OP.
 
Angel said:
It looks to me like we're talking past each other, talking about different meanings of meaning.
You are taking the concept to mean "importance"; I'm using the concept to mean "intentionality."
Look at the link provided in the OP.
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o ok but why would the intentions of a god matter to you the god has none when it comes to its own existence so why worry over what it wants more then you would for nay one else?

especially since it may not exist
 
blarg said:
o ok but why would the intentions of a god matter to you
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At stake here is the difference between a meaningful and a meaningless life.
blarg said:
the god has none when it comes to its own existence
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How did you come by your knowledge of the nature of God?
blarg said:
so why worry over what it wants more then you would for nay one else?
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What, me worry?
blarg said:
especially since it may not exist
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There's a hell of a lot of evidence that It does exist, however.
 
Angel said:
Remove all life from the world.

Now what's the meaning of life?
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Without life, there is no meaning of life, obviously. But I asked you first. What I'm asking is, remove humans from the equation, and think of that question. Be honest.
 
Angel said:
At stake here is the difference between a meaningful and a meaningless life.

How did you come by your knowledge of the nature of God?

What, me worry?

There's a hell of a lot of evidence that It does exist, however.
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but only in the sense of of intention which evne the god lacks in a way so it cant give you either kind of meaning by itself

o so you think something else created your god? well that chain ends or itself exists just because so i know enough about its nature

yes you seem cornered

your evidence seems like wishful thinking
 
blarg said:
Angel said:
What, me worry?
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yes you seem cornered
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We apparently have to overcome certain cultural differences to boot. Let's not forget this.
So you don't recognize this character, eh?
LCzgcMi.jpg
 
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