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“If We Stay Quiet They Crush Us”

Ploughboy said:
Islam is the most authoritarian system in the world. Yet Islam is now openly taught in all public schools. Though communism is also extremely authoritarian. Both socialist and Islamic ideologies are the most authoritarian belief systems in the world. Christianity is authoritarian where doctrinal matters are concerned. But we don't dictate to others what they will eat, drink, say and think. We believe in free will conversions and not forced submission.

Socialists do have a movement in our country to ban all Christian charities. This movement will not gain power unless another Obama type Democrat gets elected to the White House. But the very thought of banning Christian charities is beyond logical reason. I guess when the socialist government wants it all they really mean they want all your extra money and withhold nothing back from the socialist regimes. Socialists represent greedy hands and the citizens are the piggy bank. The hands of the socialists always have their hands on the piggy bank, tipping it upside down and milking every last cent from the piggy bank until there is no money left and then the entire country goes bankrupt. There is no regulations on spending in socialism. Its $pend $pend $pend $pend! And why not? There is no one to oppose the robbery of the citizens since they are stripped of all power. So when a hurricane comes, the socialist regime will not allow Christian charities because only the government saves and all earned income from citizens is tithed to the socialist Gov't which was deified by wicked and greedy minded fools who exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

Liberation theology is, what I believe to be, an unconstitutional assault focused on Christianity. Such an evil attack on Christian churches should not be legal in a civilized nation. Marxism is a mania which derived from a deranged man who could not even manage his family and his family all died due to Karl's laziness to work for a living. All he did is write books about how to destroy modern civilization while his wife and children all starved to death. Yeah, I want to be like Karl :roll:
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In another thread you said that the Inquisition was a good thing.
 
Ploughboy said:
Islam is the most authoritarian system in the world. Yet Islam is now openly taught in all public schools. Though communism is also extremely authoritarian. Both socialist and Islamic ideologies are the most authoritarian belief systems in the world. Christianity is authoritarian where doctrinal matters are concerned. But we don't dictate to others what they will eat, drink, say and think. We believe in free will conversions and not forced submission.

Socialists do have a movement in our country to ban all Christian charities. This movement will not gain power unless another Obama type Democrat gets elected to the White House. But the very thought of banning Christian charities is beyond logical reason. I guess when the socialist government wants it all they really mean they want all your extra money and withhold nothing back from the socialist regimes. Socialists represent greedy hands and the citizens are the piggy bank. The hands of the socialists always have their hands on the piggy bank, tipping it upside down and milking every last cent from the piggy bank until there is no money left and then the entire country goes bankrupt. There is no regulations on spending in socialism. Its $pend $pend $pend $pend! And why not? There is no one to oppose the robbery of the citizens since they are stripped of all power. So when a hurricane comes, the socialist regime will not allow Christian charities because only the government saves and all earned income from citizens is tithed to the socialist Gov't which was deified by wicked and greedy minded fools who exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

Liberation theology is, what I believe to be, an unconstitutional assault focused on Christianity. Such an evil attack on Christian churches should not be legal in a civilized nation. Marxism is a mania which derived from a deranged man who could not even manage his family and his family all died due to Karl's laziness to work for a living. All he did is write books about how to destroy modern civilization while his wife and children all starved to death. Yeah, I want to be like Karl :roll:
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I think Marxism/Communism is unworkable on anything beyond the tiny scale if Israeli kibbutz's. The Catholics had a go with a sort of theocratic liberation movement, but I don't see anything of the sort in the USA. At least nothing large enough to be concerned about.

All theocracy is anti-democratic, and thus would not work under our constitution. We have democratically elected representation here. Theocracy, at least any Abrahamic theocracy, would not tolerate democratic choice of representation.
 
zyzygy said:
If Islam is just another form of humanism then why do you oppose it? I don't oppose Christianity.
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You don't oppose Christianity? Hum?

calamity said:
If Castro did one thing right it was shoving religion into the trash where it belongs.
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And what was your reply?

zyzygy said:
He was a great man. Sadly missed.
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So somehow you don't oppose Christianity but you are constantly attacking it here on this forum.

I oppose humanism as it seeks to elevate humanity at the status of godhood and no human being is perfect. Humanism seeks to establish a one world religion based on the worship of human deities of the State. We have seen where the god-king governments ended up and understand that all humans are fallible and imperfect beings. The only perfect being who ever lived on earth was Jesus Christ. Because of His life, teachings and example, not to mention His love for all humanity, we have an example of government which is infallible and perfect and has led up to many great places, endeavors and feats never seen before in human history. Humanism doesn't seek world peace but rather a polarization which leads to a major war. There is no tolerance among humanists and no ability to reach a compromise with any of them. Humanists are absolutely authoritarian, absolutely. Its their way of no way. They do not allow other beliefs to rival them nor will they willingly share a nation with others. The humanist wants it all and they will wage a malicious and mean spirited war against peaceful Christians with the intention of getting Christians to bow down and worship them. But we Christians will never worship sinful men. There is only one God and we will never bow to a mere mortal god-king.
 
zyzygy said:
In another thread you said that the Inquisition was a good thing.
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My words are all based on the words and actions of liberals today. If you all act like demon possessed witches and want to destroy the world through Islam then I am forced to retract by former long held position which spoke against the Inquisition and to accept at least some parts of it. So its people like you who changed my position on the Inquisition and made the Inquisition seem to some degree justified. But of course you won't read my words as they are grammatically written and jump to conclusions that are not written in my reply.
 
Ploughboy said:
My words are all based on the words and actions of liberals today. If you all act like demon possessed witches and want to destroy the world through Islam then I am forced to retract by former long held position which spoke against the Inquisition and to accept at least some parts of it. So its people like you who changed my position on the Inquisition and made the Inquisition seem to some degree justified. But of course you won't read my words as they are grammatically written and jump to conclusions that are not written in my reply.
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So you do want to control people.
 
zyzygy said:
So you do want to control people.
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No. But like so many other people would like to stick to the Constitution and traditional family values that came with it. Just think for a moment: why does an atheist have to hate family values? Why does an atheist have to hate the reality that our nation was founded on Christian principles? Why can't an atheist just live as an atheist in a secure, moral and prosperous society? Why should an atheist automatically be the complete antithesis to Christianity? If we remove Christian values from our nation and replace them with atheism then what kind of morality do we have? We don't have any morality. As a result, our nation becomes corrupt and morality crumbles to moral relativism. Yet Jefferson and Franklin, not being Christians themselves, agreed that the morality of Jesus Christ surpassed all other religious teachers and thus the example set by Jesus and Moses served as a guide for freedom.
Christian theology teaches that conversions are done at one's free will. In a Christian society this means that nobody has to be a Christian but our nation is still held together by the strong family centered values of the Christian faith. Non-christians are only expected to appreciate the freedom given by the Constitution which is derived from the Christian worldview. In a sense the Constitution is a Christian theocracy since that is as close to a Christian theocracy as Scripture allows us to get. This has to do with free-will and allowing for free choice of conscience. Family values are vital to keeping a nation strong and without them the nation becomes what it is today--divided and polarized and at the brink of war.
But if atheists want to force communism on all Americans then perhaps maybe the Inquisition was correct and maybe they didn't burn enough witches. For this insanity of liberalism today is so darkly demonic that if liberals ever do get the power they desire there will be another Holocaust. The hate among liberals in great...even more hateful than back in Nazi Germany. Liberals seek to punish the unbelievers of socialism which has become a mania to the mind in today's liberalism. Its an out of control hatred. So, naturally, when people like me see this level of hate we end up questioning what could have been done to prevent this? Then you see how the occult is now being pushed into the mainstream and forced on children and taught in the public schools and you know this is an attempt to wipe out the opposition through fascism. So the mind begins to wonder if there might have been some good that came from the Inquisition? So you begin to research the Inquisition and you do still see the bad and continue to acknowledge that it was wrong overall. But there were some good things about it as well which crushed the occult world to the point that you and I grew up wondering how real demonic possession is? For we're not used to seeing it. This is because back in the Inquisition they managed to burn real witches, those who knew how to summon up demonic spirits and allow them to dwell in them (the perfectly possessed). The Inquisition burned them all (along with many Christians that didn't deserve to be burned to the stake or executed). So the bad is there but there is some truth to the Inquisition which is not known among many today that deals with real witchcraft. The church left the wannabes alone because they had no true knowledge of witchcraft and were no threat to the stability of civilization. For a few centuries there was no real genuine witchcraft. But in 2005 reports of demonic activity began to surface everywhere and 10 years later demonic obsession and even possession has become normalized again and now there is a major shortage of exorcisms in the church. Back in the Inquisition many possessed were healed through exorcism which cast out the demons. But today, demonic activity is so widespread we're looking at the end of modern civilization and the rise of something far worse than the Dark Ages or the worst parts of the Inquisition.
Simply stated, liberals run around foaming from the mouth and marching around like Nazi Germans chanting death to Israel and forcing socialism on everyone, even infiltrating all our churches and spreading this deeply blasphemous liberation theology, and you expect Christians to not think negatively about all this? I can assure you that we have a very negative view on what liberals are doing and do not appreciate how they are constantly attacking us and trying to destroy the one faith which brought the world a free society like the United States. And the sad thing is that once its gone its gone for good and there is no going back and no reset button. There is only war and death from there on out and you expect us to somehow approve of this radically hateful liberal movement? It is total Satanism and we'd rather not become an evil nation under the occult as long as we have any say about it.
 
Ploughboy said:
No. But like so many other people would like to stick to the Constitution and traditional family values that came with it. Just think for a moment: why does an atheist have to hate family values? Why does an atheist have to hate the reality that our nation was founded on Christian principles? Why can't an atheist just live as an atheist in a secure, moral and prosperous society? Why should an atheist automatically be the complete antithesis to Christianity? If we remove Christian values from our nation and replace them with atheism then what kind of morality do we have? We don't have any morality. As a result, our nation becomes corrupt and morality crumbles to moral relativism. Yet Jefferson and Franklin, not being Christians themselves, agreed that the morality of Jesus Christ surpassed all other religious teachers and thus the example set by Jesus and Moses served as a guide for freedom.
Christian theology teaches that conversions are done at one's free will. In a Christian society this means that nobody has to be a Christian but our nation is still held together by the strong family centered values of the Christian faith. Non-christians are only expected to appreciate the freedom given by the Constitution which is derived from the Christian worldview. In a sense the Constitution is a Christian theocracy since that is as close to a Christian theocracy as Scripture allows us to get. This has to do with free-will and allowing for free choice of conscience. Family values are vital to keeping a nation strong and without them the nation becomes what it is today--divided and polarized and at the brink of war.
But if atheists want to force communism on all Americans then perhaps maybe the Inquisition was correct and maybe they didn't burn enough witches. For this insanity of liberalism today is so darkly demonic that if liberals ever do get the power they desire there will be another Holocaust. The hate among liberals in great...even more hateful than back in Nazi Germany. Liberals seek to punish the unbelievers of socialism which has become a mania to the mind in today's liberalism. Its an out of control hatred. So, naturally, when people like me see this level of hate we end up questioning what could have been done to prevent this? Then you see how the occult is now being pushed into the mainstream and forced on children and taught in the public schools and you know this is an attempt to wipe out the opposition through fascism. So the mind begins to wonder if there might have been some good that came from the Inquisition? So you begin to research the Inquisition and you do still see the bad and continue to acknowledge that it was wrong overall. But there were some good things about it as well which crushed the occult world to the point that you and I grew up wondering how real demonic possession is? For we're not used to seeing it. This is because back in the Inquisition they managed to burn real witches, those who knew how to summon up demonic spirits and allow them to dwell in them (the perfectly possessed). The Inquisition burned them all (along with many Christians that didn't deserve to be burned to the stake or executed). So the bad is there but there is some truth to the Inquisition which is not known among many today that deals with real witchcraft. The church left the wannabes alone because they had no true knowledge of witchcraft and were no threat to the stability of civilization. For a few centuries there was no real genuine witchcraft. But in 2005 reports of demonic activity began to surface everywhere and 10 years later demonic obsession and even possession has become normalized again and now there is a major shortage of exorcisms in the church. Back in the Inquisition many possessed were healed through exorcism which cast out the demons. But today, demonic activity is so widespread we're looking at the end of modern civilization and the rise of something far worse than the Dark Ages or the worst parts of the Inquisition.
Simply stated, liberals run around foaming from the mouth and marching around like Nazi Germans chanting death to Israel and forcing socialism on everyone, even infiltrating all our churches and spreading this deeply blasphemous liberation theology, and you expect Christians to not think negatively about all this? I can assure you that we have a very negative view on what liberals are doing and do not appreciate how they are constantly attacking us and trying to destroy the one faith which brought the world a free society like the United States. And the sad thing is that once its gone its gone for good and there is no going back and no reset button. There is only war and death from there on out and you expect us to somehow approve of this radically hateful liberal movement? It is total Satanism and we'd rather not become an evil nation under the occult as long as we have any say about it.
Click to expand...

The US is not a Christian nation
 
vegas giants said:
The US is not a Christian nation
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Sure it is. Most of the founding fathers were ministers of the Gospel. There were no atheists in America during the lifetime of Ben Franklin and most of the European settlers were Christians. In fact, the first book that entered into America was the Geneva Bible. America was founded on Christian principles. You atheists just don't understand much about Christian principles enough to see them in the language of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights. You seem to think that atheists wrote all that when Franklin is very clear that not one atheist was known to live in America during his lifetime.
Christian family values is the strength of the nation in which atheists attack. Atheists want the country to cater to their beliefs and yet evolution teaches moral relativism which means there are no family values which results in the erosion of the family and the death of a nation. Our founders knew this and were not dumb to this. Atheists like to claim victim status and say they are being forced to be Christians just because the laws of the land were founded on Christian principles. But nobody is forcing atheists to believe anything. We Christians don't want to force you to believe. If you are gonna believe than that is a conscience decision on your own part and Christian seek genuine conversions and not forced submission. But a nation must be founded on principles and the morality of Jesus superseded the morals and values of other religious figures which is why this foundation of this country was founded on Christianity. This system was working very well until humanists began to attack Christianity and demand they be worshiped over God. But we Christians don't worship mere mortal men and have a problem bowing down to a god-king. Humanism seeks to deify government which is exactly what our founders did not want. They wanted reduced government and not the big government humanists demand. The founders didn't ever see themselves as gods, nor was President George Washington considered a god-king by any of the citizens. But humanism wants humanity to be worshiped and this means deifying government officials to the status of the gods. We don't need any of that tyranny here in America as it failed in every nation that ever had a god-king. We fought a revolution to escape a king who did not consider himself a god. Just think how much more violent the revolution would have been if Americans were fighting a god-king. Yet both nations at war were two Christian nations and Americans no longer wanted to deal with the king so they ousted him from the country completely. But humanists want to establish a government religions with several god-kings who dictate our every move; from what we eat and drink, to what we will believe. This sounds like something our founding fathers did not want for our nation. They never demanded worship and knew that God was not the government. Humanists cannot acknowledge that and demand they be worshiped as the gods.

Sorry but I already worship the true God. I have no time or desire to worship wicked men who have a god-complex.
 
Ploughboy said:
Sure it is. Most of the founding fathers were ministers of the Gospel. There were no atheists in America during the lifetime of Ben Franklin and most of the European settlers were Christians. In fact, the first book that entered into America was the Geneva Bible. America was founded on Christian principles. You atheists just don't understand much about Christian principles enough to see them in the language of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights. You seem to think that atheists wrote all that when Franklin is very clear that not one atheist was known to live in America during his lifetime.
Christian family values is the strength of the nation in which atheists attack. Atheists want the country to cater to their beliefs and yet evolution teaches moral relativism which means there are no family values which results in the erosion of the family and the death of a nation. Our founders knew this and were not dumb to this. Atheists like to claim victim status and say they are being forced to be Christians just because the laws of the land were founded on Christian principles. But nobody is forcing atheists to believe anything. We Christians don't want to force you to believe. If you are gonna believe than that is a conscience decision on your own part and Christian seek genuine conversions and not forced submission. But a nation must be founded on principles and the morality of Jesus superseded the morals and values of other religious figures which is why this foundation of this country was founded on Christianity. This system was working very well until humanists began to attack Christianity and demand they be worshiped over God. But we Christians don't worship mere mortal men and have a problem bowing down to a god-king. Humanism seeks to deify government which is exactly what our founders did not want. They wanted reduced government and not the big government humanists demand. The founders didn't ever see themselves as gods, nor was President George Washington considered a god-king by any of the citizens. But humanism wants humanity to be worshiped and this means deifying government officials to the status of the gods. We don't need any of that tyranny here in America as it failed in every nation that ever had a god-king. We fought a revolution to escape a king who did not consider himself a god. Just think how much more violent the revolution would have been if Americans were fighting a god-king. Yet both nations at war were two Christian nations and Americans no longer wanted to deal with the king so they ousted him from the country completely. But humanists want to establish a government religions with several god-kings who dictate our every move; from what we eat and drink, to what we will believe. This sounds like something our founding fathers did not want for our nation. They never demanded worship and knew that God was not the government. Humanists cannot acknowledge that and demand they be worshiped as the gods.

Sorry but I already worship the true God. I have no time or desire to worship wicked men who have a god-complex.
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That is your alternative history.
 
Ploughboy said:
Sure it is. Most of the founding fathers were ministers of the Gospel. There were no atheists in America during the lifetime of Ben Franklin and most of the European settlers were Christians.
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LOL if they were ministers, why did they deliberately exclude to promote or favor any religion?

Even though there were no modern atheists during that time, the FF were heavily influenced by deists- which was pretty much close to agnosticism, and it led them to separate church and state. America became the best nation in the world because of this. Religion has no place in real life.
 
Ploughboy said:
Sure it is. Most of the founding fathers were ministers of the Gospel. There were no atheists in America during the lifetime of Ben Franklin and most of the European settlers were Christians. In fact, the first book that entered into America was the Geneva Bible. America was founded on Christian principles. You atheists just don't understand much about Christian principles enough to see them in the language of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights. You seem to think that atheists wrote all that when Franklin is very clear that not one atheist was known to live in America during his lifetime.
Christian family values is the strength of the nation in which atheists attack. Atheists want the country to cater to their beliefs and yet evolution teaches moral relativism which means there are no family values which results in the erosion of the family and the death of a nation. Our founders knew this and were not dumb to this. Atheists like to claim victim status and say they are being forced to be Christians just because the laws of the land were founded on Christian principles. But nobody is forcing atheists to believe anything. We Christians don't want to force you to believe. If you are gonna believe than that is a conscience decision on your own part and Christian seek genuine conversions and not forced submission. But a nation must be founded on principles and the morality of Jesus superseded the morals and values of other religious figures which is why this foundation of this country was founded on Christianity. This system was working very well until humanists began to attack Christianity and demand they be worshiped over God. But we Christians don't worship mere mortal men and have a problem bowing down to a god-king. Humanism seeks to deify government which is exactly what our founders did not want. They wanted reduced government and not the big government humanists demand. The founders didn't ever see themselves as gods, nor was President George Washington considered a god-king by any of the citizens. But humanism wants humanity to be worshiped and this means deifying government officials to the status of the gods. We don't need any of that tyranny here in America as it failed in every nation that ever had a god-king. We fought a revolution to escape a king who did not consider himself a god. Just think how much more violent the revolution would have been if Americans were fighting a god-king. Yet both nations at war were two Christian nations and Americans no longer wanted to deal with the king so they ousted him from the country completely. But humanists want to establish a government religions with several god-kings who dictate our every move; from what we eat and drink, to what we will believe. This sounds like something our founding fathers did not want for our nation. They never demanded worship and knew that God was not the government. Humanists cannot acknowledge that and demand they be worshiped as the gods.

Sorry but I already worship the true God. I have no time or desire to worship wicked men who have a god-complex.
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The US was also founded by mostly slaveowning racists and sexists. That does not mean we are a slaveowning racist and sexist country.

The US is not a Christian country
 
vegas giants said:
The US was also founded by mostly slaveowning racists and sexists. That does not mean we are a slaveowning racist and sexist country.

The US is not a Christian country
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We were not founded on racism and certainly not sexism. Slavery come here from Europe and our founders knew it was wrong but it had been a way of life and not easy to break away from. So when the revolution broke out, the last thing our founders wanted to do is to fight two wars at the same time. So they focused first on defeating Britain which required Americans to be united. After the war the economy was a mess and we had no Navy. So those issues were important to take care of. But they had planned to abolish slavery from the start but could not risk dividing Americans during the revolution.

If America was not founded on Christianity, then on what principles was it founded on? What philosophy did the founders use to come up with their revolutionary new system of government?
 
zyzygy said:
That is your alternative history.
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No, revisionist history is something atheists follow. All you need to do is become literate and read older books and see for yourself how Christian the nation was.
 
Ploughboy said:
No, revisionist history is something atheists follow. All you need to do is become literate and read older books and see for yourself how Christian the nation was.
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I have a large library. I could read when I was four. Once again you resort to insult. Revisionist history? You do nothing else.
 
Myself, I think that Catholic's should boycott the church for ****ing y'all's kids. But that's y'all's business.

Pope, schmope.

Don't give a **** about any popes, priests, bishops, bull**** fairy tale characters in flowing robes and funny hats.

Not my circus. Not my monkeys.
 
Ploughboy said:
No, revisionist history is something atheists follow. All you need to do is become literate and read older books and see for yourself how Christian the nation was.
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No doubt you will take issue with a Founding Father. Have you never come across this quote? I have it in a book. I'm literate.

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[Adams submitted and signed the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797]”

― John Adams, Thoughts On Government Applicable To The Present State Of The American Colonies.: Philadelphia, Printed By John Dunlap, M,Dcc,Lxxxvi
 
We can take it that the USA was not founded as a Christian nation. I believe John Adams.
 
Cue Ploughboy accusing John Adams of being a liberal communist atheist.
 
PoS said:
LOL if they were ministers, why did they deliberately exclude to promote or favor any religion?
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Not all the founders were Christians. But most of them were. There were many ministers among the founders. True Christian principles will not allow a Christian only nation, as Christians don't want false conversions. Therefore, our founders were wise to keep the government out of the affairs of the church. Likewise, they did not establish the church as the ruling government of America like they did in Britain. Now there were some good things about the British system of government which made Britain very successful. But the monarchy of Britain was too unstable and the people always suffered whenever there was a bad ruler. Our founders wanted to avoid that which is why they created the three branches of government here as to avoid one person calling all the shots for the entire nation. They allowed the states to govern themselves which reduced the size of the role of the Federal government.
The church was left alone as it was the Christian faith that made our nation great and our founders despised the thought of any attempt to wage war against the Christian faith. They allowed various denominations to thrive without persecution. They kept out of the affairs of the church and the church was not the sole ruler of America like it was over in Britain. So checks and balances were placed so that power would not be easily abused. For men of corrupt minds will find any means to corrupt an entire people if they are given an easy opportunity to do so.
So our nation was founded on a true Christian approach to government which surpassed the British systems which had no checks and balances to keep their government from corruption. The reign of Queen bloody Mary is proof that no one person should have total power over the people. At the same time, there was no attempt by our then elected government officials to abolish Christianity. But today the progressives have waged a war against Christianity for the purpose of abolishing it which is way unconstitutional.

PoS said:
Even though there were no modern atheists during that time, the FF were heavily influenced by deists- which was pretty much close to agnosticism, and it led them to separate church and state. America became the best nation in the world because of this. Religion has no place in real life.
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If you actually study the beliefs of Jefferson and Franklin you will not find them to be relativists in any way. They actually agreed with many Biblical accounts like the Flood and the Exodus out of Egypt and didn't question it. They found it hard to accept Jesus as the miracle working Messiah but at the same time they didn't reject miracles as they accepted the parting of the Red Sea in which Moses and the Israelites crossed on dry land while the waters went back on the Egyptians and drowned them. May we can both agree that deism was close to being agnosticism but it wasn't the same thing as agnosticism since they agreed that God was our Creator, the Flood did happen, and Moses did part the Red Sea. No agnostic would believe that. Deists believed in God but did not want to follow one idea of God set forth in the Bible. So by law all religions were granted freedom of religion without persecution. History shows many nations before America would either only allow one religion or a few religions and then persecute all others. But the American idea was to allow all religions the freedom to practice their religion considering it was a serious religion and not sedition against the Constitution which defends all these civil freedoms. But liberals want to remove the right to worship without being persecuted and alienated. They want atheism to control the governments and even have control over the doctrines of the church which we already see happening today since Obama.

If people learn to just live and let live we won't be at each others throats so much and carrying on a civil discussion won't be so hard to do if we accept our differences. I personally hate arguing and fighting over silly stuff and believe all this polarizing of the nation has done great harm to our nation.
 
zyzygy said:
I have a large library. I could read when I was four. Once again you resort to insult. Revisionist history? You do nothing else.
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You will not find present day liberal thought in anything before 1969 -- at least not in mainstream politics. Revisionist history is liberal and seek to change history to fit fad and fashion. This is why history is a conservative discipline only as changing history for political gain is precisely what every historian should avoid doing. We need to conserve history...not change it.
 
Ploughboy said:
You will not find present day liberal thought in anything before 1969 -- at least not in mainstream politics. Revisionist history is liberal and seek to change history to fit fad and fashion. This is why history is a conservative discipline only as changing history for political gain is precisely what every historian should avoid doing. We need to conserve history...not change it.
Click to expand...

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[Adams submitted and signed the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797]”

― John Adams, Thoughts On Government Applicable To The Present State Of The American Colonies.: Philadelphia, Printed By John Dunlap, M,Dcc,Lxxxvi

Your attempt to revise history has failed.
 
Ploughboy said:
We were not founded on racism and certainly not sexism. Slavery come here from Europe and our founders knew it was wrong but it had been a way of life and not easy to break away from. So when the revolution broke out, the last thing our founders wanted to do is to fight two wars at the same time. So they focused first on defeating Britain which required Americans to be united. After the war the economy was a mess and we had no Navy. So those issues were important to take care of. But they had planned to abolish slavery from the start but could not risk dividing Americans during the revolution.

If America was not founded on Christianity, then on what principles was it founded on? What philosophy did the founders use to come up with their revolutionary new system of government?
Click to expand...

Always happy to help with your education. Humanism, Enlightenment principles.

Individual Liberty:
Each person is born with freedom from arbitrary or unjustified restraint

Federalism:
In this system of dual sovereignty, the people delegate certain powers to the national government, while the states and the people retain all other powers.

Limited Government:
The national government has only those powers granted in the Constitution. If a power is not listed, the national government is assumed not to have it.

Representative Government:
A republican system in which the people select representatives to represent their interests as they make and carry out laws.

Private Property:
Individuals have the right to obtain and control possessions, as well as the fruits of their own labor.

“All Men Are Created Equal”:
There is no natural class of rulers among people, and everyone is born with the same unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Separation of Powers/Checks and Balances:
The Constitution establishes a system of distinct powers to prevent an accumulation of power in one branch of government, and to ensure that each branch can stop the others from growing too powerful.
 
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Ploughboy said:
You will not find present day liberal thought in anything before 1969 -- at least not in mainstream politics. Revisionist history is liberal and seek to change history to fit fad and fashion. This is why history is a conservative discipline only as changing history for political gain is precisely what every historian should avoid doing. We need to conserve history...not change it.
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That is revisionism.
 
Ploughboy said:
We were not founded on racism and certainly not sexism. Slavery come here from Europe and our founders knew it was wrong but it had been a way of life and not easy to break away from. So when the revolution broke out, the last thing our founders wanted to do is to fight two wars at the same time. So they focused first on defeating Britain which required Americans to be united. After the war the economy was a mess and we had no Navy. So those issues were important to take care of. But they had planned to abolish slavery from the start but could not risk dividing Americans during the revolution.

If America was not founded on Christianity, then on what principles was it founded on? What philosophy did the founders use to come up with their revolutionary new system of government?
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Christianity also came from Europe. Racism was written directly into the constitution. Our nation was founded on undemocratic principles. Our constitution never once mentions jesus christ
 
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