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Shouldn't Trump Be On The Side of Democracy, as Opposed to a Communist Dictatorship?

Your post suggests the American people support Beijing over Hong Kong people.

If so then you speak for yourself and the Putin-Trump Rowers only.

To include the Trump-Kim-Xi-Dictator-Tyrants Fanclub. Authoritarians all. American isolationism has always been a fail. It's never been more pernicious than it is presently btw.

Forgive me, Tangmo, but you are beginning to sound rather neoconservative. Your progressive badge may have to be stripped.

That gibe aside, for the record, I do agree with you. Donald Trump should be hammering this and using this as further reasonable justification for the sanctions being put on China: That Chinese government cannot be trusted to abide by their word, and respect Hong Kong's special status.
 
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Your post suggests the American people support Beijing over Hong Kong people.

If so then you speak for yourself and the Putin-Trump Rowers only.

To include the Trump-Kim-Xi-Dictator-Tyrants Fanclub. Authoritarians all. American isolationism has always been a fail. It's never been more pernicious than it is presently btw.

I agree with you. I thought I'd post this of the protestors in Hong Kong singing the National Anthem and holding American flags. They want freedom and democracy as opposed to life in China, you, better than any of us, know this.

 
I said what your post suggested. Which is that Americans mustn't care about democracy in Hong Kong. I refer to Americans in USA who would rather be ruled by Russia than be governed by Democrats or democrats. Americans in USA who are working each day to try to destroy the Constitution.

What the member accurately acknowledged is that there IS no real democracy in Hong Kong. It has been a property of Red China since 1997 when, by treaty, the U.K.'s 99 year authority over Hong Kong officially ended.

Margaret Thatcher considered not giving it back to the what had become the Red Chinese, but Premier Li Peng, the 'butcher of Bejing' made it clear that the People's Republic of China's army would be marching into Hong Kong regardless. So Thatcher and ultimately Tony Blair honored the treaty rather than subjecting Hong Kong and England to what would surely have been a long, bloody, expensive war with massive collateral damage.

China has pretty well allowed their economic jewel of Hong Kong to do its own thing over the last 20+ years as it was economically expedient to do so. But it isn't in the nature of totalitarian governments of any sort to resist meddling and exercising increasing control

And President Trump is wisely not getting the USA involved in what is now an internal stuggle in the affairs of China and Hong Kong.
 
So would I, when is that going to start? :roll:

It was put into place in Nov. 2016 and it started in Jan. 2017.

Kick your multimedia echo chamber to the curb and you'll be able to see it.
 
What the member accurately acknowledged is that there IS no real democracy in Hong Kong. It has been a property of Red China since 1997 when, by treaty, the U.K.'s 99 year authority over Hong Kong officially ended.

Margaret Thatcher considered not giving it back to the what had become the Red Chinese, but Premier Li Peng, the 'butcher of Bejing' made it clear that the People's Republic of China's army would be marching into Hong Kong regardless. So Thatcher and ultimately Tony Blair honored the treaty rather than subjecting Hong Kong and England to what would surely have been a long, bloody, expensive war with massive collateral damage.

China has pretty well allowed their economic jewel of Hong Kong to do its own thing over the last 20+ years as it was economically expedient to do so. But it isn't in the nature of totalitarian governments of any sort to resist meddling and exercising increasing control

And President Trump is wisely not getting the USA involved in what is now an internal stuggle in the affairs of China and Hong Kong.

Your preaching to the choir is good.

In fact UK wanted to recognize universal suffrage in Hong Kong in the 1950s but Mao said he'd march the PLA into it if that's what might occur. So UK dropped the idea. Your more recent accounts are the same old rinse and repeat of the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. Xi Jinpingpong means absolutely to possess Taiwan which means he's is for a worse time than was had by the last emperor Pu Yi. Don't you know the Chinese never get anything right.

As to your final sentence, Beijing considers the world the internal affair of China and the Chinese. And the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing intend fully to straighten things out globally when the time comes. Hong Kong is a small first step for Beijing soon to be a giant leap for 21st century fascism with Chinese characteristics. The Boyz of Beijing and the Chinese are in for the shock of their lives sooner or later as it all goes south on 'em, just as everything the Chinese try in their thousands of years of grandiose designs drops on 'em like a piano from on high. Remember Lao Tzu lost his war. Clausewitz came out ahead on the other side of the globe.
 
Your preaching to the choir is good.

In fact UK wanted to recognize universal suffrage in Hong Kong in the 1950s but Mao said he'd march the PLA into it if that's what might occur. So UK dropped the idea. Your more recent accounts are the same old rinse and repeat of the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. Xi Jinpingpong means absolutely to possess Taiwan which means he's is for a worse time than was had by the last emperor Pu Yi. Don't you know the Chinese never get anything right.

As to your final sentence, Beijing considers the world the internal affair of China and the Chinese. And the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing intend fully to straighten things out globally when the time comes. Hong Kong is a small first step for Beijing soon to be a giant leap for 21st century fascism with Chinese characteristics. The Boyz of Beijing and the Chinese are in for the shock of their lives sooner or later as it all goes south on 'em, just as everything the Chinese try in their thousands of years of grandiose designs drops on 'em like a piano from on high. Remember Lao Tzu lost his war. Clausewitz came out ahead on the other side of the globe.

Well, let's just acknowledge that your post is rather non sequitur and confusing and let it go at that.
 
I really don't the remember the outcry from the American people when Iran executed 2,000 people during the years when Kerry was aimlessly trying to negotiate a Nuclear deal.
What did Obama say to all these executions?

The 2,000 are the known number, btw.

What does Iran, Kerry, and the past have to do with Trump and Hong Kong .... the present situation?

Nothing at all. You're just trying to divert the topic away from Trumps foreign policy ineptitude.
 
Well, let's just acknowledge that your post is rather non sequitur and confusing and let it go at that.

Most everything seems confusing to Trump cultists.
 
I agree with you. I thought I'd post this of the protestors in Hong Kong singing the National Anthem and holding American flags. They want freedom and democracy as opposed to life in China, you, better than any of us, know this.



Excellent post if I may say so thank you.

Sunday 25% of the population of Hong Kong were in the streets in a torrential rain. That's 25% of 7.5 million people.

They demand universal suffrage. Since the transfer of sovereignty to China elections and voting in HKG have been like elections and voting in Iran -- the people of HKG reject that. They will never accept it. Beijing promised universal suffrage and Beijing will be held to their promise by the people of HKG.

So i's good that each side has stepped back significantly from the confrontation approach by each side as has occurred at the Hong Kong airport (which I know well and which has many security vulnerabilities protesters exploited brilliantly in their movement, maneuvering and taking control of areas). The clashes in the streets have subsided which is also encouraging. It's significant Beijing has called off its thugs.

What's not encouraging is that it's a standoff which will be only temporary. The Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing react poorly to outside pressure yet they react barbarously to being left to their own vile devices. Beijing doesn't care about the economics and finance of Hong Kong anywhere as much as they must compulsively control the government, the political system, the police, courts and the army. The Boyz in Beijing will make friends around the world if they can work a mutually agreeable and democratic peace in HKG. If however the Boyz end up following their animal instincts they will be isolated from most everyone most everywhere.

The ruling Lee clan in Singapore has been influential in Beijing in past crises of one sort or another. The Lees are Chinese and their small potatoes which means the Boyz in Beijing know they can't be accused of getting pushed or bossed by USA, EU et al. Perhaps the present lull might open some doors for each side but nobody knows really. Xi is set on control of HKG and Taiwan. He's set in concrete on it. It's hard to talk to a stone.
 
I really don't the remember the outcry from the American people when Iran executed 2,000 people during the years when Kerry was aimlessly trying to negotiate a Nuclear deal.
What did Obama say to all these executions?

The 2,000 are the known number, btw.

Deflect, deflect, deflect. I once again ask if there is such a thing as an intelligent, honest conservatives capable of actually posting on topic other than dumb deflection. but....but...obama.

Bolton is plural now?!?

It's fascinating how the liberals try their hardest to involve Trump in a new war.

First it was Russia, then NK, then Iran and now China. Surely the next country will be some African nation ...

You ever going to post anything of intelligence, or is it just dumb one line deflections over and over again.
 
Yeah, you'll just have to make allowances for us choosing not to pretend nonsense actually means something.

Venezuela means something while Hong Kong doesn't right? No measure of allowance fixes that.
 
Well, let's just acknowledge that your post is rather non sequitur and confusing and let it go at that.


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Venezuela means something while Hong Kong doesn't right? No measure of allowance fixes that.

When you have some specific evidence of exactly what our relationship/negotiations with Venezuela are versus what our relationship/negotiations with China/Hong Kong are, get back to me. Otherwise I am just so bored with the hate-Trump-all-the-time club spewing hateful nonsense that has no verifiable basis in reality.
 
Does Trump support Communist China as opposed to Hong Kong, despite China's human rights crimes? Will money and personal gain always be the priority over standing for values and human rights across the world? Is it unrealistic to want the president to have some support for Hong Kong citizens in a situation like this, at least a verbal comment or understanding in their favor?



Opinion: Hong Kong Protesters Might Bother Tourists, Or Pierce Their Conscience : NPR

Being President means having to walk a lot of tightropes. As the head of the country he must try to work with leaders even if they don't have the same type of government as we do. Good relations with China or Russia or Iran or any other are better than bad relations and the pros and cons of each situation must be weighed.
 
China using Twitter and Facebook to spread disinformation about Hong Kong.

Earlier this month, Chinese state media launched a domestic blitz depicting the Hong Kong protests as riots funded by the CIA. China-linked social media accounts then flooded Twitter and Facebook with thousands of pro-Beijing posts and targeted advertisements.

Social media companies are now pushing back.
Twitter said this week it had suspended nearly 1,000 accounts it believes are tied to Chinese state actors and that it would no longer accept advertising from state-funded media. Facebook announced shortly after that it was removing seven pages, five Facebook accounts and three groups after Twitter tipped the platform off to the use of "a number of deceptive tactics, including the use of fake accounts."

According to data released by Twitter, almost all of the suspended accounts were disguised as personal or corporate accounts of marketing firms, international relations experts or bitcoin enthusiasts. Others posed as Hong Kong media outlets and wrote in traditional Chinese characters, the script used in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

"Chinese media like [state broadcaster] CGTN or China Daily cannot independently recreate the China narrative on social media," King-wa Fu, an associate professor at the University of Hong Kong's Journalism and Media Studies Center, told NPR. "That's why they need to make use of these means to create social media traffic and to try to create a way to counter the pro-Hong Kong narrative on the social media."


On Tuesday, thousands of anti-Hong Kong posts were still being generated by what appeared to be Twitter bots – accounts created in July or August with only a handful of followers — and feeds dominated by similarly formatted slogans and propaganda videos. Many of them sport the hashtag #supportmulan, a reference to the Disney live-action remake of Mulan that Hong Kong protesters say they will boycott after its lead actor announced she supported Hong Kong police.


China's powerful propaganda channels have readily adapted to the profusion of digital platforms used by its citizens. It routinely censors Chinese social media and chat apps to scrub dissenting opinions or references to sensitive political subjects. A 2016 Harvard study estimated that around half a billion Chinese social media posts a year are created by government-paid commentators.


Over the past decade, China has also globalized its propaganda efforts. China Daily, an English-language state-run broadsheet, regularly runs full-page inserts in mainstream American newspapers such as The Washington Post and The New York Times. Major Communist Party-run outlets now sponsor pro-Beijing content in hundreds of outlets catering to overseas Chinese and hold fully funded annual summits for Chinese-language journalists based outside of China.


Twitter and Facebook's identification of at least 1,000 Chinese state-linked accounts this week show how these disinformation efforts have expanded to international social media platforms. Influencing perceptions of audiences both inside and outside of China is now a government priority. A critical component of these perception management campaigns is the estimated 60 million ethnic Chinese people who live outside of China and whom Beijing views as pliable audiences.


"It's no secret that the PRC government routinely coordinates fake social media activity on Chinese social media platforms, but this would be confirmation that it's now doing the same thing in English and other languages, with the likely goal of eroding other countries' support for pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong," says Matt Schrader, an analyst at the German Marshall Fund of the United States who studies Chinese influence operations.



Hong Kong Protests: China Uses Twitter And Facebook To Share Disinformation : NPR
 
Being President means having to walk a lot of tightropes. As the head of the country he must try to work with leaders even if they don't have the same type of government as we do. Good relations with China or Russia or Iran or any other are better than bad relations and the pros and cons of each situation must be weighed.

Too bad Trump is inept and incapable of doing any of that.
 
**** you don't dare say.

You suggested the American people mustn't have any interest, concern or commitment to democracy in Hong Kong. This is your position and bent over posture.

You sound like you'd like to go back to the Bush #2 doctrine & his global crusade for democracy featuring demonstrations to dump over
governments and install pro USA regimes in Iraq, Ukraine, Serbia, Georgia & Lebanon. In his 2nd inagural address he announced his
'global democratic revolution' These recent 'regime change wars' were indulgent disasters.
And here I thought all the songbirds of this garbage have fallen silent!

We barely have enough power to secure the country note our open borders, Pax Americana is coming to an end.
 
China using Twitter and Facebook to spread disinformation about Hong Kong.





Hong Kong Protests: China Uses Twitter And Facebook To Share Disinformation : NPR


These people and bots are astoundingly obvious. They have the identical instruction, technology, methods and means, party line, vocabulary and so on. It's easy to wipe the floor with 'em every time. After all they're Chinese.

So it's great to see Twitter and FB among others cleaning these hacks out of their respective domain. Yet I'd also be completely confident there are many that continue to exist and operate. (They pay little mind to discussion boards cause that's where they have to engage and get a ton of butt hurt. At social media they can just post and run to the next one.)

Taiwan is currently cleaning up what Taiwanese call the "Red Media" of Beijing that operate mass media and social media. Beijing is trying to influence the January election of the president and the national assembly which will be elected jointly for the first time.

Four years ago Pres. Tsai Ing-wen of the pro independence Democratic Progressive Party was elected in a landslide and is favored for reelection, just not by as much. Pres. Tsai who is fluent in English and has a law degree from Cornell offered asylum and refuge to protesters and their supporters in Hong Kong. Her stance on Beijing in general and also Hong Kong combined with her successful same sex marriage bill put a lock on the 40 and younger vote.

Four years ago the DPP won control of the national assembly for the first time ever and is favored again. KMT candidate for president and Mayor of Kaohsiung Han Kuo-yu said the Hong Kong protests were a parade instead. The city council censured Han and he's fighting a recall petition while he's running for president.

The old KMT suave of close economic ties with Beijing became controversial ahead of the 2016 campaign as the Sunflower Movement stormed the KMT controlled national assembly to chase 'em out and force cancellation of a proposed one sided trade bill. There might be lessons on Taiwan for USA in dealing with Republicans.


'Today, Hong Kong; tomorrow, Taiwan:' Resistance to China spreads

Taiwan's Tsai gains momentum for reelection on US trip -
Nikkei Asian Review


'Today, Hong Kong; tomorrow, Taiwan:' Resistance to China spreads - Philippine Association of Service Exporters, Inc. (PASEI).
 
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You sound like you'd like to go back to the Bush #2 doctrine & his global crusade for democracy featuring demonstrations to dump over
governments and install pro USA regimes in Iraq, Ukraine, Serbia, Georgia & Lebanon. In his 2nd inagural address he announced his
'global democratic revolution' These recent 'regime change wars' were indulgent disasters.
And here I thought all the songbirds of this garbage have fallen silent!

We barely have enough power to secure the country note our open borders, Pax Americana is coming to an end.

Your imagination is working overtime.

The irony is that it's producing nothing of value.

You're living in the world of isolationists circa 1910 - 1940. You can find those dates as the isolationists' epitaph in Munich.
 
Deflect, deflect, deflect. I once again ask if there is such a thing as an intelligent, honest conservatives capable of actually posting on topic other than dumb deflection. but....but...obama.





You ever going to post anything of intelligence, or is it just dumb one line deflections over and over again.

One might ask the same of you.
 
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