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Hong Kong

Hong Kong is part of China, so it's really no more a "border" than the border between Ontario and Quebec. What exactly do you think we should do?

C’mon, counselor! Can’t answer a question with a question.....


There “many, many people” referring to a “border.” Google machine inop?
 
C’mon, counselor! Can’t answer a question with a question.....


There “many, many people” referring to a “border.” Google machine inop?

It's not a "border" in the sense that it's a national border, so the "Chinese" no more "cross" that border than the "Canadians" do when they enter Quebec. It's all China.

There is no dispute as to the sovereignty of Hong Kong, like there is with, say, Taiwan. Hong Kong is part of the PRC. So the most we COULD do is suspend some levels of diplomatic contacts, like we did after Tianamen Square. I'm not even sure we'll do that.

Now, what do YOU think?
 
It's not a "border" in the sense that it's a national border, so the "Chinese" no more "cross" that border than the "Canadians" do when they enter Quebec. It's all China.

There is no dispute as to the sovereignty of Hong Kong, like there is with, say, Taiwan. Hong Kong is part of the PRC. So the most we COULD do is suspend some levels of diplomatic contacts, like we did after Tianamen Square. I'm not even sure we'll do that.

Now, what do YOU think?

The US does bupkis; I think that is why there is radio silence from the Administration.


White House Told Officials to Go Easy on China Over Hong Kong - WSJ


Every situation seems to be boiled down to “trade.” Not how thing used to be....
 
Do you think that's the wrong way to go? What should we do?

Not at all! This is China’s backyard. We have enough “irons in the fire” in other areas in the world. I’m just trying to get some dialogue started.
 
Not at all! This is China’s backyard. We have enough “irons in the fire” in other areas in the world. I’m just trying to get some dialogue started.

Not sure much of anyone is going to see it terribly differently.
 
While Hong Kong is unquestionably Chinese territory there was an agreement that it would remain functionally free through 2047. If Beijing breaks that agreement they should pay a price internationally. Ideally, we'd see fairly aggressive multinational sanctions against the PRC. If we don't see that kind of action then it's pretty much a given that Taiwan will be next. If there is no multinational response to that then China will have effectively been given free rein over much of east Asia.

It's HIGHLY unlikely that the US, under Trump or anyone else, will actively engage China no matter what they do.
 
While Hong Kong is unquestionably Chinese territory there was an agreement that it would remain functionally free through 2047. If Beijing breaks that agreement they should pay a price internationally. Ideally, we'd see fairly aggressive multinational sanctions against the PRC. If we don't see that kind of action then it's pretty much a given that Taiwan will be next. If there is no multinational response to that then China will have effectively been given free rein over much of east Asia.

It's HIGHLY unlikely that the US, under Trump or anyone else, will actively engage China no matter what they do.

What price do you think will be levied?

You have to ask? See Barnacle.

Rhetorical question....
 
What price do you think will be levied?



Rhetorical question....

Economic. I think that if anything is done it should be purely economic. Manufacturing that can be moved reasonably quickly should be moved to India. New manufacturing deals should be arranged with an emphasis on Mexico and South America. Just keep the world moving but back away from China. Heck, it might be interesting to pitch an offer to Kim to see if he wants to pick up some of the manufacturing that would be pulled from China.
 
It's not a "border" in the sense that it's a national border, so the "Chinese" no more "cross" that border than the "Canadians" do when they enter Quebec. It's all China.

There is no dispute as to the sovereignty of Hong Kong, like there is with, say, Taiwan. Hong Kong is part of the PRC. So the most we COULD do is suspend some levels of diplomatic contacts, like we did after Tianamen Square. I'm not even sure we'll do that.

Now, what do YOU think?

It's a national border for the purposes of visa issuance to foreigners and "visa run" updates by foreigners.

The foreigner needs a stamp in your passport from each government -- Beijing and Hong Kong. Without either stamp you can't transit to the other. It's not like Canada at all, not in the least bit, and not ever. For foreigners, and for purposes of visa and passport, the border at the Mainland and Hong Kong is a national border

This is due to the local autonomy Hong Kong has. Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China. HKG is not a province of the PRC. I've been entering the Mainland via Hong Kong SAR for 10 years. And exiting the mainland to Hong Kong SAR for 10 years. I need a stamp of approval from each government to transit the border that separates 'em. Every foreigner does.

For Chinese nationals they need a border pass to transit from one place to the other, ie, Mainland to Hong Kong and vice versa. For Chinese nationals, you can't transit the border checkpoints to either destination without the border pass. Beijing issues a Hong Kong border pass to Chinese nationals on the mainland. In Hong Kong the local government issues a border pass for residents of Hong Kong to transit to the Mainland. In either instance an application for a border pass must be approved by the jurisdiction in which you reside, ie, the PRC or the HK SAR.

In the HK SAR the local government controls border crossings by every person, foreigner or Chinese national, into it and out of it. Beijing does the same on the mainland in respect of Hong Kong residents and foreigners alike.

For the Chinese population this is apart from the Hukou system. Under the Chinese Hukou system each Chinese needs a pass issued by the government to relocate outside of his birthplace city, town, village, province. A Chinese without the Hukou system pass and who considers his village of birth to be a death sentence, can't escape legally unless he can secure a Hukou certificate from the Party-Government. So if you go outside of your home village or jurisdiction without the Hukou cert/card you become an illegal migrant. Which means You can't get a decent job or any job, rent or buy housing, can't enroll your kid in school, get hospital or medical treatment and so on and so on.

There are no such lunatic arrangements in Canada of the Hukou internal domestic passport as there are in the CCP-PRC. That is, Canada is civilized up to modern standards; China is not. Presently 250 million Chinese are illegal domestic migrants without the internal domestic passport. They cluster outside the cities and live on less than $2 a day. Mao created Hukou and each year during the period of China's expansion the Party vows faithlessly and idly to reform it.
 
Economic. I think that if anything is done it should be purely economic. Manufacturing that can be moved reasonably quickly should be moved to India. New manufacturing deals should be arranged with an emphasis on Mexico and South America. Just keep the world moving but back away from China. Heck, it might be interesting to pitch an offer to Kim to see if he wants to pick up some of the manufacturing that would be pulled from China.

Capital is fleeing China at $1 Trillion a year. After Beijing ordered mass popular riots against Japanese and Japanese businesses several years ago Japan has pulled out investments in favor of Southeast Asia countries.

With the trade war foreign corporations in China are buying land in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand. Laos to relocate to those more placid climes. Mexico is already receiving corporations moving out of China and so is Kenya among a dozen other countries where labor and capital costs are cheap.

Trump has changed radically the US official attitude and policies concerning China. Trump has taken the previous decades of engagement with China to the containment of China. Every China adviser Trump has in the WH hates China almost as much as Trump himself hates China and the Chinese. CCP Boyz in Beijing hate Trump and want to see him defeated for reelection. They're trying to tough it out in the meantime, hoping Trump will lose.

However, even Democratic party elites on China gave up on the Chinese assimilating into the world order. Even Obama threw in the proverbial towel during his second term as did all of his China advisers. The new rule about China is to wall 'em off. Box 'em in and isolate 'em. It's going rather well I'd say. Chinese are hurting.
 
The US does bupkis; I think that is why there is radio silence from the Administration.


White House Told Officials to Go Easy on China Over Hong Kong - WSJ


Every situation seems to be boiled down to “trade.” Not how thing used to be....

So what do you want Trump to do? Go to war? Start WWIII? I thought that was what you peeps were crapping yourselves over when he got elected.
"Oh the humanity! He'll start another world war! Don't elect him! Think of the children!"
 
83fa8f44-9c67-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_image_hires_173928.JPG

Protesters storm the Legislative Council Chamber on the 22nd anniversary of Hong Kong’s handover from Britain to China. Photo: Sam Tsang



On the one hand we have the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing who never do anything wrong and who are always in the right.

On the other hand Trump just said he mentioned to Xi Jin Ping Pong at the G-20 in Japan that, "most people want democracy." One thing we know about Trump and his China advisers in the WH is that it's unanimous China is a bad guy. Trump and his advisers are very strong on Taiwan with Bolton wanting diplomatic recognition now. They'd likely agree that if HKG got crushed by the Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing, Taiwan would be next, especially if the USA did nothing about Beijing and Hong Kong.


Tensions between Hong Kong and the government in Beijing are increasingly spilling outside China’s borders.

1000x-1.jpg

Protests at Hong Kong International Airport in Hong Kong, July 26 Photographer: Justin Chin/Bloomberg


China’s foreign ministry this week accused the U.S. of being a “black hand” behind protests that have rocked Hong Kong since early June, while Secretary of State Michael Pompeo urged Beijing to “do the right thing.” An encounter at an Australian university between supporters and critics of the Hong Kong demonstrators ended with punches being thrown.

There are “signs of foreign forces behind the protests,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told reporters Tuesday in Beijing. “I wonder if these U.S. officials can truthfully answer to the world the role the U.S. has played in recent events in Hong Kong.”


Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
So what do you want Trump to do? Go to war? Start WWIII? I thought that was what you peeps were crapping yourselves over when he got elected.
"Oh the humanity! He'll start another world war! Don't elect him! Think of the children!"

He’s not finished yet...
 
Lotta people here offering to pay Beijing's fare.

Even clear the roads for 'em.

Trump and his China advisers hate China. We'll have to see how all of this plays through.
 
I have just skimmed the website of Hong Kong's South China Morning Post.


There was an insightful comment that I wanted to share with interested members and guests: Many young Hong Kongers are not only angry about political matters. Many are worried about daily life. For example, just as in many American cities, rents for decent apartments are very high and out of the reach of many people.


P.S. According to many observers, that newspaper is run by editors who must take into consideration the views of the big boys in Beijing.
 
I'm torn on the issue.

On one hand, if I were a HK citizen, seeing China's 'Hanification' policies and (truly) despotic authoritarianism under Chairman Xi, I wouldn't want anything to do with China or Chinese courts either.

On the other hand, it's clear to anyone with eyes that these protests are being stirred up by foreign (i.e. Western) interests, the same interests that have turned Europe into a bankrupt, culturally suicidal husk being overrun by Islam and foreign nationalism in real time, and I don't fault the Chinese one bit for wanting to stamp out the instigators.

What I will say is that the issue is far greater than the minutiae the US media fixate on: one reporter captured here, two protesters beaten there. This is a struggle to determine the fates of tens of millions.
 
There's one guy in this forum who lives and works in China and sometimes goes to Hong Kong- I forgot his username but I hope he's okay.
 
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