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When Europe stole clothing technology from China

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Fu Talk

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Remember that long time ago. When Europe stole Silk Worms and silk technology from China?
Europe also stole paper technology, printing technology, gunpowder technology, pistol technology, rocket technology and cannon technology.
I think what China is doing in 2019. Is payback time for what Europe did long time ago :D

 
:inandout:
 
Yeah, and before that, Cain killed Abel.


Ancient history is just that.
 
KevinKohler said:
Yeah, and before that, Cain killed Abel.


Ancient history is just that.
Click to expand...

Well unlike the Europeans. The Asians have a different mindset.
India is still angry about the British colonization and partition of India.
Vietnam is still angry about the French colonization of Vietnam.
South Korea is still angry about the Japanese colonization of south Korea.
The Muslims. Well lets just say they are also very angry about the partition of the Ottoman Caliphate.

You as a westerner say ancient history. Asians on the other hand. Says it is time to avenge their ancestors. What China is doing today. China is avenging their ancestors. China still remembers British colonization of Hong Kong. China still remembers the opium wars. China still remember the Chinese civil war between Taiwan and mainland China. China still remember Japanese invasion of China. You are viewing everything from a western standpoint. I view things from a eastern Asian view. In life there is not only one path. There are multiple paths.
 
Fu Talk said:
Remember that long time ago. When Europe stole Silk Worms and silk technology from China?
Europe also stole paper technology, printing technology, gunpowder technology, pistol technology, rocket technology and cannon technology.
I think what China is doing in 2019. Is payback time for what Europe did long time ago :D
Click to expand...

I enjoyed your sense of humor. Paper making, gunpowder both first appeared in India hundreds of years before being borrowed by the Chinese. India made its early paper from cotton and flax fibers, the latter known as linen. Gunpowder, originally used as a mendicant for sealing wounds may have first been utilized in what is now northern Turkey, southern Russia. Migrated first through India, well before arriving in China. The telemetries used for rockets and cannons was developed by the ancient Greeks for their sea artillery during the Peloponnesian wars, and likely before, the earliest known use of algebra, geometry and physics. It is also believed the mulberry eating silk worm originated in SE Asia, and the harvesting of its threads perhaps a thousand years before it showed up in China. Ancient Chinese texts speak of learning how the SE Asians wore the valuable textile body armor that prevented arrows from penetrating, now known as silk.

Art builds on art, technology builds on prior technology. Cultures borrow from each other and it isn't theft, it is progress. The genius wasn't the individual who invented the wheel, it was the individual who figured out how to use the wheel, attached to an axle, mounted with a cart.

Perhaps you also believe Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and the other gods?

And you left out Marco Polo's "theft" of pasta, tho noodle making recipes have been found inscribed on stone steles in the pyramids, and throughout the mideast from before the Roman Empire rose and which were a popular Roman street food, served with rendered pig fat. Hmmm, tasty.
 
Fu Talk said:
Well unlike the Europeans. The Asians have a different mindset.
India is still angry about the British colonization and partition of India.
Vietnam is still angry about the French colonization of Vietnam.
South Korea is still angry about the Japanese colonization of south Korea.
The Muslims. Well lets just say they are also very angry about the partition of the Ottoman Caliphate.

You as a westerner say ancient history. Asians on the other hand. Says it is time to avenge their ancestors. What China is doing today. China is avenging their ancestors. China still remembers British colonization of Hong Kong. China still remembers the opium wars. China still remember the Chinese civil war between Taiwan and mainland China. China still remember Japanese invasion of China. You are viewing everything from a western standpoint. I view things from a eastern Asian view. In life there is not only one path. There are multiple paths.
Click to expand...

China is copying (ripping off) everyone else's technological advances and products and selling them ultra cheap (counterfeiting).
 
Fu Talk said:
Remember that long time ago. When Europe stole Silk Worms and silk technology from China?
Europe also stole paper technology, printing technology, gunpowder technology, pistol technology, rocket technology and cannon technology.
I think what China is doing in 2019. Is payback time for what Europe did long time ago :D

Click to expand...


Wait a moment, you are painting this as technology theft but the video makes mention of entire dynasties and societies collapsing, around the years 450-500, the Chinese period of "disunity" and the Crisis of the Third Century.

This is vastly different than so called "forced technology transfer" on a corporate and government level and also vastly different than structured, sanctioned and institutionalized technology reverse engineering. We're not talking about stashing eggs and larvae in a cane and planting tasty shrubbery, we're talking about purchasing a BMW X5, taking it apart and winding up with a carbon copy.



Also, since it's been known since the caveman days that sulphur burns rapidly all by itself, do you honestly believe that only the Chinese would have had gunpowder for more than maybe a few decades before someone else figured out the trick of mixing sulphur and charcoal with an oxidizer like potassium nitrate? I argue that even if Europe had never witnessed Chinese rockets, someone would have figured out gunpowder in short order, and by the way, the Chinese never invented the ballistic projectile weapon known as the GUN, despite having had many decades to toy around with gunpowder.
What they did invent was a sort of spear launching "fire lance" that used a bamboo tube, sort of a gunpowder powered "rocket launcher" so to speak.

In any case, if this is their "payback" as you say, it may ultimately backfire on them because if their markets get too depressed due to imbalance of both trade AND JOBS, eventually there will no longer BE a market to support them. Minimum wage Walmart workers can't even afford Chinese goods, because they can barely even afford to pay rent.
 
Fu Talk said:
Well unlike the Europeans. The Asians have a different mindset.
India is still angry about the British colonization and partition of India.
Vietnam is still angry about the French colonization of Vietnam.
South Korea is still angry about the Japanese colonization of south Korea.
The Muslims. Well lets just say they are also very angry about the partition of the Ottoman Caliphate.

You as a westerner say ancient history. Asians on the other hand. Says it is time to avenge their ancestors. What China is doing today. China is avenging their ancestors. China still remembers British colonization of Hong Kong. China still remembers the opium wars. China still remember the Chinese civil war between Taiwan and mainland China. China still remember Japanese invasion of China. You are viewing everything from a western standpoint. I view things from a eastern Asian view. In life there is not only one path. There are multiple paths.
Click to expand...

India is a subcontinent, not truly part of Asia. A land unto itself.
 
Fu Talk said:
Well unlike the Europeans. The Asians have a different mindset.
India is still angry about the British colonization and partition of India.
Vietnam is still angry about the French colonization of Vietnam.
South Korea is still angry about the Japanese colonization of south Korea.
The Muslims. Well lets just say they are also very angry about the partition of the Ottoman Caliphate.

You as a westerner say ancient history. Asians on the other hand. Says it is time to avenge their ancestors. What China is doing today. China is avenging their ancestors. China still remembers British colonization of Hong Kong. China still remembers the opium wars. China still remember the Chinese civil war between Taiwan and mainland China. China still remember Japanese invasion of China. You are viewing everything from a western standpoint. I view things from a eastern Asian view. In life there is not only one path. There are multiple paths.
Click to expand...

Oh really?

The Chinese Communist Party wants to avenge the various Empires of China?

Somehow I kinda doubt that.

The Chicoms conducted espionage because they think they can get a technological advantage from it.

Not because of some silly fantasy about "avenging" the spread of technology.

Gee, in that case does China remember the rather large amounts of aid the West pumped into the country to keep them afloat against Japan?
 
OldFatGuy said:
Art builds on art, technology builds on prior technology. Cultures borrow from each other and it isn't theft, it is progress. The genius wasn't the individual who invented the wheel, it was the individual who figured out how to use the wheel, attached to an axle, mounted with a cart.

Perhaps you also believe Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and the other gods?

And you left out Marco Polo's "theft" of pasta, tho noodle making recipes have been found inscribed on stone steles in the pyramids, and throughout the mideast from before the Roman Empire rose and which were a popular Roman street food, served with rendered pig fat. Hmmm, tasty.
Click to expand...

The Scots believe that the Americans stole television from them. (John Logie Baird)
Baird's invention first transmitted a 30-line vertically scanned image, at five pictures per second...mechanically by means of a spinning disk.
The light needed to capture such an image was so intense that it melted makeup, which had to be very heavy to produce enough contrast to actually see the human face.
The "televisor" scanning disk contraption was so large and heavy it could not be moved.
Imagine if we had to watch HBO this way:



But then again, so do the Russians. They think we stole Vladimir Zworykin from them, who is regarded as the first to come out with a successful "all electronic" system of capturing and displaying television images.
But Zworykin emigrated to the United States voluntarily in 1918.
His "iconoscope", presented in 1932, was the first all electronic video camera image pickup device, a vacuum tube with an optically sensitive scanning area to capture moving images.

"The Story of Television" (1956)
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh really?

The Chinese Communist Party wants to avenge the various Empires of China?

Somehow I kinda doubt that.

The Chicoms conducted espionage because they think they can get a technological advantage from it.

Not because of some silly fantasy about "avenging" the spread of technology.

Gee, in that case does China remember the rather large amounts of aid the West pumped into the country to keep them afloat against Japan?
Click to expand...


You just proven you know nothing about the Asian mindset or the Chinese mindset. China is still going on to revenge what happened to them long ago. The west just want to forgot all that. But Asians never forget. Watch this video and you learn something about the Chinese mindset. You are thinking empires. That is wrong way of thinking. All Dynasties in China are considered Chinese nation. Not empire. The Chinese wants to avenge what happened to their nation long time ago. It did not matter if they were monarchy or dictatorship. China is still China and when Chinese speaks about history. They are not talking about monarchy or empires. They are talking about their nation as a whole. The west always split Chinese history into dynasty era. That is a big mistake. No matter what era, dynasty or century. All Chinese dynasties are the same as Chinese nation.

 
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i don't support the orange fool's tariffs and look forward to his potential defeat in 2020, but China does steal IP at an almost pornographic rate. it's ridiculous. however, i don't see a solution, as treating American workers well and making things here slows the transfer of wealth to the five old white guys, and if we want to make everyone prosperous, those guys must control 99.5 percent of all wealth. making consumer goods overseas is a critical part of this strategy.
 
Helix said:
i don't support the orange fool's tariffs and look forward to his potential defeat in 2020, but China does steal IP at an almost pornographic rate. it's ridiculous. however, i don't see a solution, as treating American workers well and making things here slows the transfer of wealth to the five old white guys, and if we want to make everyone prosperous, those guys must control 99.5 percent of all wealth. making consumer goods overseas is a critical part of this strategy.
Click to expand...

Capitalism it is called. Private companies does not care about Americans. Private companies just go where ever they make the most profits.
But when it comes to history. I feel like western world just want to forget things happened. Like many Muslims are still talking about avenging their ancestors. And western people are just like. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The problem with the west. Western people do not understand Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and all these types of mindset. Western world just want to forget every thing happened. While the Asian still remembers every thing and wants revenge for the past.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh really?

The Chinese Communist Party wants to avenge the various Empires of China?

Somehow I kinda doubt that.

The Chicoms conducted espionage because they think they can get a technological advantage from it.

Not because of some silly fantasy about "avenging" the spread of technology.

Gee, in that case does China remember the rather large amounts of aid the West pumped into the country to keep them afloat against Japan?
Click to expand...

And before that the UK was a massive drug pusher. Using its military to force China to accept opium
Then you have Germany, Japan, UK, the US using their militaries to force China to give provide them with the Shanghai International settlement, ending in 1941. Of course we can also mention Hong Kong and Macau.

Yep the west helped China against Japan, only after they were looting it, stealing its territory and forcing opium on its population
 
Fu Talk said:
You just proven you know nothing about the Asian mindset or the Chinese mindset. China is still going on to revenge what happened to them long ago. The west just want to forgot all that. But Asians never forget. Watch this video and you learn something about the Chinese mindset. You are thinking empires. That is wrong way of thinking. All Dynasties in China are considered Chinese nation. Not empire. The Chinese wants to avenge what happened to their nation long time ago. It did not matter if they were monarchy or dictatorship. China is still China and when Chinese speaks about history. They are not talking about monarchy or empires. They are talking about their nation as a whole. The west always split Chinese history into dynasty era. That is a big mistake. No matter what era, dynasty or century. All Chinese dynasties are the same as Chinese nation.

Click to expand...


But your charge of theft is disproven, so in essence, you're just saying that it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what Chinese PERCEPTIONS are.
Alrighty then, if that's the case, then over here "it only matters what Western perceptions are".
Enjoy your stalemate.
 
Fu Talk said:
Well unlike the Europeans. The Asians have a different mindset.
India is still angry about the British colonization and partition of India.
Vietnam is still angry about the French colonization of Vietnam.
South Korea is still angry about the Japanese colonization of south Korea.
The Muslims. Well lets just say they are also very angry about the partition of the Ottoman Caliphate.

You as a westerner say ancient history. Asians on the other hand. Says it is time to avenge their ancestors. What China is doing today. China is avenging their ancestors. China still remembers British colonization of Hong Kong. China still remembers the opium wars. China still remember the Chinese civil war between Taiwan and mainland China. China still remember Japanese invasion of China. You are viewing everything from a western standpoint. I view things from a eastern Asian view. In life there is not only one path. There are multiple paths.
Click to expand...

Vengeance for something that happened to your ancestors is anti-social and irrational. If this is the justification for actions taken today, then any who oppose those actions by whatever means necessary are right to do so.
 
Fu Talk said:
Capitalism it is called. Private companies does not care about Americans. Private companies just go where ever they make the most profits.
But when it comes to history. I feel like western world just want to forget things happened. Like many Muslims are still talking about avenging their ancestors. And western people are just like. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The problem with the west. Western people do not understand Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and all these types of mindset. Western world just want to forget every thing happened. While the Asian still remembers every thing and wants revenge for the past.
Click to expand...

that's great. i don't like idiot boy or IP theft, and i support neither. i also don't support whitewashing historical sins. every nation should learn from them and try to do better going forward.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
But your charge of theft is disproven, so in essence, you're just saying that it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what Chinese PERCEPTIONS are.
Alrighty then, if that's the case, then over here "it only matters what Western perceptions are".
Enjoy your stalemate.
Click to expand...

Learning is not the same as stealing. When China learns something from the west. You always call it stealing.
When the west learned how to produce gunpowder, pistol and cannons from China in the past. You just want to forget all that.
The problem with the west. Everything you do is one way street. When Europe learns from other nations. You just want to forget all that.
But when China learns from the West. You call it stealing.

So then here is my point. Are we going to say. China steals Anime from Japan. Or are we going to say China learn Anime from Japan. Video of Chinese anime.


Are we going to say China learn how to build cars from Sweden. Or are we going to say China steals cars from Sweden.
Code: 
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/money/ford-sells-volvo-chinese-carmaker-geely-1-5-billion-article-1.200482

Are we going to say China steals Nuclear weapon from USA. Or are we going to say China learned how to build Nuclear weapons from Soviet Union. Because the Soviet Union did indeed teach China how to build nuclear weapons. And the list goes on and on. Westeners are afraid. Because the Chinese have the hardcore learning ability. While westerners are brainwashed to eat McDonalds, Burger King and Taco junk food all day. When I look at China. I see they are learning from the west. When westerners look at China. You say they are stealing.

Now take the same logic and go back to the time the west learned how to make gunpowder, pistols, rockets and cannons from China. Are we going to say westerners stole Chinese technology. Or we are going to say westerners learned Chinese technology.
 
Fu Talk said:
Are we going to say China steals Nuclear weapon from USA. Or are we going to say China learned how to build Nuclear weapons from Soviet Union. Because the Soviet Union did indeed teach China how to build nuclear weapons. And the list goes on and on. Westeners are afraid. Because the Chinese have the hardcore learning ability. While westerners are brainwashed to eat McDonalds, Burger King and Taco junk food all day. When I look at China. I see they are learning from the west. When westerners look at China. You say they are stealing.
Click to expand...

We already deduced that you're an extreme nationalist. So why even pose the questions you've posed in your thread at all?
Just say that your blueprint consists of extreme Chinese nationalism and leave it at that.

Of course, please understand that the entire world already fought two wars on two major fronts eighty years ago in response to European nationalism and Japanese nationalism taken too far. Eventually, extreme nationalists lose. They lose every single time because if they didn't lose every single time, the planet would already be under permanent global domination by one nation with extremist nationalist views, and it's not.

And now that you've avoided answering my specific points about reverse engineering, I'll consider the fact that you're not actually interested in any form of debate, you're only here to make troll posts that tout your extreme nationalism.
Guess what? We have an oversupply of knuckleheads right here who have extreme nationalist outlooks and attitudes.
Your number is way down on the totem pole, chief.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
We already deduced that you're an extreme nationalist. So why even pose the questions you've posed in your thread at all?
Just say that your blueprint consists of extreme Chinese nationalism and leave it at that.

Of course, please understand that the entire world already fought two wars on two major fronts eighty years ago in response to European nationalism and Japanese nationalism taken too far. Eventually, extreme nationalists lose. They lose every single time because if they didn't lose every single time, the planet would already be under permanent global domination by one nation with extremist nationalist views, and it's not.

And now that you've avoided answering my specific points about reverse engineering, I'll consider the fact that you're not actually interested in any form of debate, you're only here to make troll posts that tout your extreme nationalism.
Guess what? We have an oversupply of knuckleheads right here who have extreme nationalist outlooks and attitudes.
Your number is way down on the totem pole, chief.
Click to expand...

I just gave you simple question which you could answer very easily.

In 2019 China are learning from the west.
China learned how to build cars from Sweden.
China learned how to create Anime from Japan.
China learned how to build Nuclear weapons from Soviet Union AKA Russia.
Are we going to say China steals technology from these nation? Are we going to say China learned technology from these nations?

In the past the west learned how to make gunpowder, paper technology, guns and cannon technology from China.
Are we going to say the west steals technology from China? Are we going to say the west learned technology from China?

Now stop avoiding my question and just answer it simply. Because this is simple question.
 
Fu Talk said:
I just gave you simple question which you could answer very easily.

In 2019 China are learning from the west.
China learned how to build cars from Sweden.
China learned how to create Anime from Japan.
China learned how to build Nuclear weapons from Soviet Union AKA Russia.
Are we going to say China steals technology from these nation? Are we going to say China learned technology from these nations?

In the past the west learned how to make gunpowder, paper technology, guns and cannon technology from China.
Are we going to say the west steals technology from China? Are we going to say the west learned technology from China?

Now stop avoiding my question and just answer it simply. Because this is simple question.
Click to expand...

Chinese often reverse engineer cars and other items in order to produce their own. Theft.

Chinese spies have forwarded technology from US labs. Theft.

Chinese companies produce knock off purses and garments. Theft.
 
Fledermaus said:
Chinese often reverse engineer cars and other items in order to produce their own. Theft.

Chinese spies have forwarded technology from US labs. Theft.

Chinese companies produce knock off purses and garments. Theft.
Click to expand...

Learning means reverse engineering in USA.
Are we going to say Europe reverse engineered guns, pistols and cannons from China also?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
And before that the UK was a massive drug pusher. Using its military to force China to accept opium
Then you have Germany, Japan, UK, the US using their militaries to force China to give provide them with the Shanghai International settlement, ending in 1941. Of course we can also mention Hong Kong and Macau.

Yep the west helped China against Japan, only after they were looting it, stealing its territory and forcing opium on its population
Click to expand...

.....Which is no different than what China did to various neighboring states, such as what would become Vietnam and Burma, for centuries. Imperialism always suddenly becomes a problem when one is the one being targeted instead of dishing it out.

Considering Japan proved, over and over again in places like the Philippines and Indonesia as well as China that they were far worse than anything the Europeans had come up with......your hand waving seems rather amusing,
 
Fu Talk said:
You just proven you know nothing about the Asian mindset or the Chinese mindset. China is still going on to revenge what happened to them long ago. The west just want to forgot all that. But Asians never forget. Watch this video and you learn something about the Chinese mindset. You are thinking empires. That is wrong way of thinking. All Dynasties in China are considered Chinese nation. Not empire. The Chinese wants to avenge what happened to their nation long time ago. It did not matter if they were monarchy or dictatorship. China is still China and when Chinese speaks about history. They are not talking about monarchy or empires. They are talking about their nation as a whole. The west always split Chinese history into dynasty era. That is a big mistake. No matter what era, dynasty or century. All Chinese dynasties are the same as Chinese nation.

Click to expand...


China does not give a **** about silk or gunpowder making its way to the West. Claiming it does at this point is simply laughable.

Nothing you said changes any of the facts I pointed out.
 
Tigerace117 said:
.....Which is no different than what China did to various neighboring states, such as what would become Vietnam and Burma, for centuries. Imperialism always suddenly becomes a problem when one is the one being targeted instead of dishing it out.

Considering Japan proved, over and over again in places like the Philippines and Indonesia as well as China that they were far worse than anything the Europeans had come up with......your hand waving seems rather amusing,
Click to expand...

Similar to what Europeans did to the Native Americans. Exterminate the Aztec, Incas and among many others.



 
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