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U.S. Ship Sails Near Disputed South China Sea Islands in Challenge to Beijing

JacksinPA

JacksinPA

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sh...a-islands-in-challenge-to-beijing-11546838050

WASHINGTON—A U.S. guided-missile destroyer patrolled near the disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea on Monday, challenging Beijing’s maritime claims there, U.S. military officials said.

The USS McCampbell conducted what the military calls a freedom of navigation operation in the Paracel Islands chain, sailing within 12 nautical miles of three islands: Tree, Lincoln and Woody, according to a Navy official.
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I feel that continuing these freedom of navigation exercises is the correct thing to do in the face of China's attempt to annex a good part of the South China Sea.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sh...a-islands-in-challenge-to-beijing-11546838050

WASHINGTON—A U.S. guided-missile destroyer patrolled near the disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea on Monday, challenging Beijing’s maritime claims there, U.S. military officials said.

The USS McCampbell conducted what the military calls a freedom of navigation operation in the Paracel Islands chain, sailing within 12 nautical miles of three islands: Tree, Lincoln and Woody, according to a Navy official.
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I feel that continuing these freedom of navigation exercises is the correct thing to do in the face of China's attempt to annex a good part of the South China Sea.
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They dont change the trajectory of history, China will take control because they want to and they can.

It is the power that matters, not your feelings.
 
On a somewhat related note.....

DwOIaOlU8AEWy4f.jpg


USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) containing elements of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) has begun its north-bound transit of the Dardanelles Strait en route to the Black Sea.

Putin's not gonna be happy. He believes the Black Sea belongs to Moscow. But the cowardly Russians wouldn't dare kidnap any US sailors. (They kidnapped 24 Ukrainian sailors on November 25)
 
Rogue Valley said:
On a somewhat related note.....

DwOIaOlU8AEWy4f.jpg


USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) containing elements of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) has begun its north-bound transit of the Dardanelles Strait en route to the Black Sea.

Putin's not gonna be happy. He believes the Black Sea belongs to Moscow. But the cowardly Russians wouldn't dare kidnap any US sailors. (They kidnapped 24 Ukrainian sailors on November 25)
Click to expand...

It is better than nothing but when the Navy already has more missions than can be covered and accomplished we need to be subtracting missions not adding. This is likely a one time nearly useless show of force.

Ukraine simply does not make the priority list.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is better than nothing but when the Navy already has more missions than can be covered and accomplished we need to be subtracting missions not adding. This is likely a one time nearly useless show of force.

Ukraine simply does not make the priority list.
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Ukraine may or may not make your priority pecking order, but the US does stand behind freedom of navigation in international waters, and It's important that we remain steadfastly in support of that principle. The Black Sea does not belong to Russia anymore than the Gulf of Mexico belongs to us.
 
humbolt said:
Ukraine may or may not make your priority pecking order, but the US does stand behind freedom of navigation in international waters, and It's important that we remain steadfastly in support of that principle. The Black Sea does not belong to Russia anymore than the Gulf of Mexico belongs to us.
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It is not my list I am speaking of, it is our list, America is ending our role as the Global Police Force and as well very few Americans are willing to spill American blood for Ukraine....Russia knows this and our leaders need to understand this.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
It is not my list I am speaking of, it is our list, America is ending our role as the Global Police Force and as well very few Americans are willing to spill American blood for Ukraine....Russia knows this and our leaders need to understand this.
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I'm not disputing our politics of the moment. We should conduct such transits just because such things deter people like Putin from violating international law. Putin might think it's his wading pool, but we're allowed to play in it too.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is not my list I am speaking of, it is our list, America is ending our role as the Global Police Force and as well very few Americans are willing to spill American blood for Ukraine....Russia knows this and our leaders need to understand this.
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You got it backwards, the U.S. military is ending its practice of letting the CIC order them around. He is compromised by Putin and is no longer in charge of our security. That's why we are not leaving the Kurds high and dry in Syria too. Trump is not fit to command. He is working for our adversary.
 
humbolt said:
I'm not disputing our politics of the moment. We should conduct such transits just because such things deter people like Putin from violating international law. Putin might think it's his wading pool, but we're allowed to play in it too.
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Your post reminds me of what my wife said when I said that Trump should have fired Mattis long ago for insubordination, she said "You can fire everyone".....we dont have the power to protect everything we want to protect with our military, a huge chunk of what we would wish to do we have to let go because we dont have the ability....we need to pick a few very important things that we can still do, we need to concentrate on that short list.
 
JacksinPA said:
...

I feel that continuing these freedom of navigation exercises is the correct thing to do in the face of China's attempt to annex a good part of the South China Sea.
Click to expand...

Don't let anyone else know, but on this, we both agree.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Your post reminds me of what my wife said when I said that Trump should have fired Mattis long ago for insubordination, she said "You can fire everyone".....we dont have the power to protect everything we want to protect with our military, a huge chunk of what we would wish to do we have to let go because we dont have the ability....we need to pick a few very important things that we can still do, we need to concentrate on that short list.
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I agree with your wife - somewhat. International law as it applies to transit in international transit of recognized seas is vital for world trade. This is exactly what countries like Russia and China would like to ignore.
 
Rogue Valley said:
On a somewhat related note.....

DwOIaOlU8AEWy4f.jpg


USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) containing elements of the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) has begun its north-bound transit of the Dardanelles Strait en route to the Black Sea.

Putin's not gonna be happy. He believes the Black Sea belongs to Moscow. But the cowardly Russians wouldn't dare kidnap any US sailors. (They kidnapped 24 Ukrainian sailors on November 25)
Click to expand...
Do you project they will have excersizes in either Romania, Georgia Or Turkey? I hope President Trump isn’t so stupid as to send them to Ukraine.
 
iguanaman said:
You got it backwards, the U.S. military is ending its practice of letting the CIC order them around. He is compromised by Putin and is no longer in charge of our security. That's why we are not leaving the Kurds high and dry in Syria too. Trump is not fit to command. He is working for our adversary.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with Trump, this has to do with force structure limitations, with the need to prioritize, something that Americans now generally suck at.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is not my list I am speaking of, it is our list, America is ending our role as the Global Police Force and as well very few Americans are willing to spill American blood for Ukraine....Russia knows this and our leaders need to understand this.
Click to expand...

Ukraine has never requested American soldiers for its defense.
 
humbolt said:
I agree with your wife - somewhat. International law as it applies to transit in international transit of recognized seas is vital for world trade. This is exactly what countries like Russia and China would like to ignore.
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And since they are increasingly in charge they will increasingly ignore. As America and the West continue to decline the rules are changing...and America needs to get along with adapting to the new reality.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
They dont change the trajectory of history, China will take control because they want to and they can.

It is the power that matters, not your feelings.
Click to expand...

This is in response to the Chinese Admiral suggesting China "sink a couple of US aircraft carriers".

This puts pressure on the Communist party. They know that if they so much as scratch the paint on a US warship, their exports to America end, and ships at sea will be turned around.

As Trump would say "Make my day".
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And since they are increasingly in charge they will increasingly ignore. As America and the West continue to decline the rules are changing...and America needs to get along with adapting to the new reality.
Click to expand...

We have the largest, most powerful and skilled navy in the world. Russia certainly isn't rising, and China believes they can challenge, which won't work out well for them at present. A Chinese admiral recently said that if they took out a couple of pur carriers, we'd fold. That kind of arrogance Won't get them anywhere. If China did that, we'd still have a bunch of carriers. If we took out two of theirs in retaliation, they'd have none. I'm not buying the America in decline bit.
 
humbolt said:
We have the largest, most powerful and skilled navy in the world. Russia certainly isn't rising, and China believes they can challenge, which won't work out well for them at present. A Chinese admiral recently said that if they took out a couple of pur carriers, we'd fold. That kind of arrogance Won't get them anywhere. If China did that, we'd still have a bunch of carriers. If we took out two of theirs in retaliation, they'd have none. I'm not buying the America in decline bit.
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American experts worry about the same thing, so no. You are wrong about a lot of other stuff too.
 
chuckiechan said:
This is in response to the Chinese Admiral suggesting China "sink a couple of US aircraft carriers".

This puts pressure on the Communist party. They know that if they so much as scratch the paint on a US warship, their exports to America end, and ships at sea will be turned around.

As Trump would say "Make my day".
Click to expand...

Sending one ship one time does almost nothing, and we dont have the ships to keep on on station here permanently, not with out taking away from another what should be higher priority mission.

Also, Americans are not willing to die for Ukraine, our leaders need to behave appropriately.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
American experts worry about the same thing, so no. You are wrong about a lot of other stuff too.
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Ill admit I dont know the rules of engagement, but an attack on a US aircraft carrier is a declaration of war due to what an aircraft carrier represents. From what I have gleaned, at the minimum, we would destroy the participants, their base, and possibly the harbor they sailed from assuming the US ship was only disabled. We would enforce a 1000 KM “no trespassing zone”, and proceed to take the Chinese off the islands in the Spratleys.

A voice and internet campaign bursting through their censorship should be enough to wern them that their economy can only be revived by the exit of the Communist Party.



That could get dicey.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And since they are increasingly in charge they will increasingly ignore. As America and the West continue to decline the rules are changing...and America needs to get along with adapting to the new reality.
Click to expand...


Bush and Obama are the ones who convinced them we were in decline.
 
China is all bluff.

It would not dare attack an American warship.

Any American president would respond in a way that would scare the Beijing dictators witless.
 
TheParser said:
China is all bluff.

It would not dare attack an American warship.

Any American president would respond in a way that would scare the Beijing dictators witless.
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they might try that while there’s a democrat in the White House, but most republicans would hit them back hard.
 
Tom Horn said:
they might try that while there’s a democrat in the White House, but most republicans would hit them back hard.
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I think that even President Biden/Warren/Castro/O'Rourke would be forced to hit back -- at least lightly.


A Republican, of course, would teach China a lesson that it would never forget: Do not mess with the United States of America.
 
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