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Thai Cave rescue - boys could be stranded for months

Hawkeye10 said:
Let's just pray for a big dose of warm fuzzies all around.....

Then that it gets decided that we dont do this again.

Too much to ask for?
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Rocks in your pocket again I see.
 
Top Cat said:
Rocks in your pocket again I see.
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I got Spooner Strawberries, second to the last day of the season!

Lots of flavor, not very sweet.

That's what sugar is for.

Or Maple Syrup.

CANADIAN

:2wave:
 
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It has now been revealed how the cave rescue will take place. Map and full details are at the link.

Wishing them all a safe evacuation.


https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...s/news-story/c954b67c26830e4a31bff9a9808632f1

TETHERED to a frogman, with a static guide rope and stage tanks along the passage, just how the perilous rescue of the 12 trapped Thai schoolboys will take place has been revealed.

The treacherous four-hour journey to safety for each of the 12 boys will take at least two days of continuous individual rescues. To prepare for their journey out of the cave system, each 11 to 16-year-old will first be fitted with a wetsuit, aqua boots, a helmet and a scuba mask. Each boy will then be briefed on what is about to take place to help minimise the risk of panic.

Instead of having their own scuba tanks, each boy will have to rely on an individual navy rescue diver’s air supply given to them in bursts along the way. The divers will use a static rope attached to the cave walls to help guide each boy one-by-one through the cave system of completely flooded chambers and those with air pockets. Oxygen “stage tanks” have been placed every 25 to 50 metres along the linked system of cave chambers so that the boys can get extra oxygen if needed.
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Serenity said:
It has now been revealed how the cave rescue will take place. Map and full details are at the link.

Wishing them all a safe evacuation.
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Ha! Nailed it. :cool:

PoS said:
However, its not impossible for highly trained rescue divers (and SEALs are) to bring children through if there's enough space and they have placed relays that guide them and have extra tanks of air. The kids dont need to learn how to swim in this instance, instead they cling to their dive buddy and just breathe- if they can keep their cool then they should make it out.
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Good luck, divers and kids. May you get out safely.
 
Serenity said:
It has now been revealed how the cave rescue will take place. Map and full details are at the link.

Wishing them all a safe evacuation.
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I am not sold...this is 3 hours old:

Plan A is to teach the boys to dive so that they can dive out of the cave escorted by navy divers, and the governor reported that the boys have begun doing practice dives in the cave.
Plan B is to drain the cave system so that the children can walk out of the caves wearing life jackets meaning they don’t need to dive.
Authorities have announced they have reduced the water levels in the first section of the cave – a 1.5km stretch from the entrance to a point they are calling chamber three – by 40%. It is now possible to walk through the water up to chamber three.
Plan C is to drill down to the cave where the boys are stranded and rescue them that way. The governor earlier ruled out drilling as an option because the boys are between 800m and 1km below the surface and in a confined space, so it was not thought to be safe.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...e-boys-football-soccer-team-monsoon-rain-live
 
Lursa said:
Good question. You brought up something not related to my post...now you ask?
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If you think having a fear of water or not being able to swim, is of no relevance here, I'll leave you to your delusion.
 
gunner said:
If you think having a fear of water or not being able to swim, is of no relevance here, I'll leave you to your delusion.
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Even the most experienced scuba diver could panic in those conditions.

Swimming has nothing to do with it...know how or not, panic will be likely for some.
 
Moo Pa (Wild Boar) Academy is a private K-12 school in the Mae Sai district of Chiang Rai municipality and province of northwest Thailand. It is only several miles from the border with Myanmar.




Getting to know the Moo Pa Academy Mae Sai soccer team

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The team was formed by 25-year Mr Aekkapol Chanthawong, the coach, who recruited young boys in Mae Sai district who love football and who have some skills in the sport. The team trains almost every day after class at the Mae Sai soccer club. Besides the routine training, Aekkapol occasionally took them out for cycling trips or other activities outside Mae Sai district. For instances, on June 6, the team played a friendly match with the Srikham team and he arranged for a cycling trip to Laos with the team.







moo-pa.jpg

Moo Pa (Wild Boar) Academy Mae Sai is the name of the soccer team in Mae Sai district of Chiang Rai which is currently the focus of public attention and concern after 12 members of the team and their coach went into Tham Luang-Khun Nam Nang Non cave on Saturday and were trapped in the flooded cave. Their venture into Tham Luang-Khun Nam Nang Non was not the first of the team. About two years ago, the coach took them to the cave for a tour.
 
Lursa said:
Even the most experienced scuba diver could panic in those conditions.

Swimming has nothing to do with it...know how or not, panic will be likely for some.
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It really has gone right over your head, hasn't it? Like I said, when I was a swimming instructor the one biggest reason that many had for not being able to swim, was a fear of water. What is so difficult for you to understand?
 
According to Thai PBS water is being drained at a rate of 1 centimeter an hour with the drainage capacity estimated to be 17,000 cubic meters a day. PBS reported "unregistered" volunteers accidentally pumped water back into the cave that had already been pumped out. There's no estimate of the volume of water currently in the cave where temperatures range only slightly, between 73 degrees and 75 degrees.





CHIANG RAI, Thailand (Reuters) - Rescuers in Thailand were no closer on Thursday to deciding when and how to extract 12 boys and their soccer coach from a flooded cave complex, where they were found this week, pale and weak but otherwise in good health, after nine days lost underground.

Kobchai Boonarana, deputy director-general of the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation department, said it was up to the rescue team in the cave to decide whether and when the boys would be strong enough to tackle the journey out.

"Their conditions, we can see that their morale is good but what about their strength and their ability? That's up to the team inside to decide," Kobchai told reporters on Thursday.

"Our job is to keep pumping out water and it is up to the team inside to assess the safety level and whether the kids can travel safely through," he said.

Rescuers have sent in food, water and medical staff while they have been pumping water out of the tunnels in a bid to lower water levels to help with the rescue.

But the meteorological department warned on Thursday that up to 60 percent of the country's north, including Chiang Rai, can expect heavy rain from July 7 to July 12.







2MJnaY2











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Soldiers and rescue workers work in Tham Luang cave complex in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, July 1, 2018. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun











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Thai Navy Seals prepare for another dive mission into the cave.







Robert Charles Harper of the British Cave Rescue Council, who is a portly age 70, was taken by an honor escort to the airport in Bangkok for a medical return to Britain. As one of the team of three to participate in finding the soccer team of boys, Harper was given a royal military escort to the airport which is also known as "Old Swampy." Harper was awarded citations by two Thai ministers in a brief departure ceremony at the airport. The Royal Thai Government paid Harper's return airfare.
 
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Tangmo said:
~ Robert Charles Harper of the British Cave Rescue Council, who is a portly age 70, was taken by an honor escort to the airport in Bangkok for a medical return to Britain. As one of the team of three to participate in finding the soccer team of boys, Harper was given a royal military escort to the airport which is also known as "Old Swampy." Harper was awarded citations by two Thai ministers in a brief departure ceremony at the airport. The Royal Thai Government paid Harper's return airfare.
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The lovely thing about Harper is he won't want any fuss or ceremony, he'll just want those boys saved whether it's plan A / B / C or even D - (D is the team looking for a"chimney" down and they are using locals who are expert at finding such holes)

Hawkeye10 said:
~ If so then the government carries some blame ~
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You can't legislate against every eventuality.
 
The Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-ocha has said from the start the soccer boys stuck in the cave will have to dive out of it. I think he's nuts and not only because of his military-monarchy coup in 2014. However and as the accompanying report below indicates, the water level 1 km in from the entrance is now 32 cm. Yet the area the teammates are in is full of debris in high water up to the sharp right turn to the opening. There are passageways through which anyone larger than small has to squeeze through holding his airtank ahead of him. Divers getting to the boys require 12 hours roundtrip. No one is saying how many airtanks that is but with the plan being 3 frogmen per boy that's a lot of tanks in a lot of places.


31 army frogmen to join SEAL team in extraction mission

The Army today sent a team of 31 frogmen from the Special Force and the 21st Infantry Regiment to assist the Navy SEAL team in the mission to extract the 13 survivors out of the flooded cave.

Army deputy spokesperson Colonel Sirichan Ngathong said today that Army Commander-in-Chief General Gen Chalermchai Sitthisart ordered the frogmen to be flown to Chiang Rai to assist in the rescue mission.

She said that the 32 frogmen had undergone training in combat diving and a course in special diving.

Currently, about 1,100 army troops have been deployed at Tham Luang cave to support the search and rescue operations. But since the missing 13 have already been located, the colonel said troops whose work was previously to carry out a search operation were reassigned to help in draining water out of the cave.

31 army frogmen to join SEAL team in extraction mission - Thai PBS English News







USN Seals and rescue specialists from Pacific Command in Hawaii advised Thais to get the water out of the cave first and foremost which the Thais are doing. I'd like to think there's a plan in this, i.e., make it possible to walk out all 13 of 'em. Problem is the coach is reported in poor condition along with one other boy who hasn't been publicly identified. The adult coach didn't consume his snacks so when the boys ate all of theirs and everyone was still stranded coach gave 'em his.



Water diversion bypass to divert fresh water from reaching cave in Tham Luang Rescue Operation

By Thai PBS


A 200-metre long bypass has been built to divert as much as 13,000 cubic metre/day water from flowing into Tham Luang cave as officials continue to drain water out of the cave.

Royal Irrigation Department chief Thongplaew Kongchan said Wednesday that his officials and those from the Mineral Resources Department, Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation, PTT, Chevron Thailand and villagers joined hands to build the water diversion bypass after it was discovered on Tuesday that there is a creek at the southward end of Tham Luang or Martin Point that flows into the cave.

The 200-metre long water diversion bypass which is expected to be completed today will divert about 13,000 cubic metres of water from flowing into the cave each day and will thus cause water in the cave to recede even if there are rains.

Currently, about 68,000 cubic metres of water are being drained out of the cave each day, making the water level in the cave to drop an average of one centimeter every two hours, said Mr Thongplaew.

As for the 800 rai of rice field which is flooded as a result of the water pumped out of the cave, water pumps have been installed by officials of the Town and City Planning Department to drain water out of the rice field into Ma canal about 30 kilometres away.

The Ma canal merges with Nam Luak river before it flows down into the Mekong River.

Water diversion bypass to divert fresh water from reaching cave - Thai PBS English News
 
gunner said:
It really has gone right over your head, hasn't it? Like I said, when I was a swimming instructor the one biggest reason that many had for not being able to swim, was a fear of water. What is so difficult for you to understand?
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You jumped on my post. Panicking has nothing to do with swimming. Or even a fear of water in this case. For example, scuba divers dont 'fear' water but in ice diving, wreck diving, cave diving...panic can still happen.
 
Lursa said:
You jumped on my post. Panicking has nothing to do with swimming. Or even a fear of water in this case. For example, scuba divers dont 'fear' water but in ice diving, wreck diving, cave diving...panic can still happen.
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Yup. Even trained divers do panic. Ive seen it happen on clear ocean dives.
 
The two Brits who were the first cave divers to reach the stranded boys last Saturday were relieved to hear English. One of the boys speaks English and enabled direct communication between the boys and the Brits who arrived to relieve them of their isolation and fears. Adul Samorn, 14, translated between the boys and their coach and the British rescuers.



English-speaking footballer trapped in Tham Luang cave is academic polymath, says teacher


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Soccer team member Adul Samorn, 14, surprised the two British divers who were the first to reach the 13 stranded in the cave when Adul began speaking English. Adul speaks Thai, English, Chinese, Burmese and also plays volleyball, does biking, and he can play guitar, violin and piano. The boy's GPA is 3.9 of 4.



One person not surprised was his teacher, Piyarat Yodsuwan of Mor 2/3, Ban Wiengpan School. As a student of the school’s so-called “Buffer School”, Adul learnt foreign languages from native speakers from English speaking countries who teach in pleasant areas of Thailand. Adul is under the care and shelter of Hope Mae Sai Catholic Church as his Akha hilltribe family, who live in Myanmar, is very poor.

The school has promoted the study of foreign languages because about 80 per cent of the students who graduate from Mor 3 are planning to run a business at the border. Therefore, it is necessary for them to understand foreign languages. Adul has been translating between the students and foreign divers, to include between Thai divers and the foreign divers who reach the boys location. The boy often translates to assist Myanmar day workers in Chiang Rai where jobs pay better, to include filling out worker documents required by the Thai government.

English-speaking footballer is academic polymath, says teacher
 
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We need to prepare ourselves for the likelihood that this does not end well.


The rains are coming, the boys are not well enough to travel it is now reported, and not only can almost none of these boys swim but there is a deep phobia about water in the culture because so many die in water....drowning is the number #1 killer of kids after 1 years old.....the idea that these kids are going to be able to be pulled out with the cave flooded is very far fetched.

As for this water pumping idea it is not working even though it has not rained much in days, and of course more rain is almost here. They actually have found out that they were pumping water into the cave instead of out:

Local reports say unregistered volunteers wanting to help are actually making matters worse by diverting water right back into the dark cave system where the boys are awaiting rescue. The young footballers are now said to have been forced to go 600ft further into the cave complex in Chiang Rai amid fears they will have to dive out very soon – possibly before they are properly trained. Rescuers are still pumping out water but overnight rains mean that the passage nearest to their original ledge is now flooded to its ceiling
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https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/05/water-accidentally-pumped-cave-thai-boys-stuck-7686119/





I dont think we are going to get our warm fuzzies all around.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
We need to prepare ourselves for the likelihood that this does not end well.


The rains are coming, the boys are not well enough to travel it is now reported, and not only can almost none of these boys swim but there is a deep phobia about water in the culture because so many die in water....drowning is the number #1 killer of kids after 1 years old.....the idea that these kids are going to be able to be pulled out with the cave flooded is very far fetched.

As for this water pumping idea it is not working even though it has not rained much in days, and of course more rain is almost here. They actually have found out that they were pumping water into the cave instead of out:


https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/05/water-accidentally-pumped-cave-thai-boys-stuck-7686119/





I dont think we are going to get our warm fuzzies all around.
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Failure would be a horrendous disaster, yes.

One thing it would very likely do is bring down the military dictatorship that seized power in May, 2014. That of course would be of no consolation. It is the Prime Minister and coup leader General Prayut who insists the boys must dive out of the cave. Moreover, the cave is known to fill with water during the monsoon. Prayut is soft on drilling so there's been a minimum of it. Diving capacity has meanwhile been built up during the past week. Everyone says the order to dive the boys out has come from on high. It's beginning to look like the beginning of a new low.

I do not underestimate the will, smarts and courage of the Thai boys but the people in Thailand who go to the beach are the foreign tourists. And there's no beach anywhere even remotely near Chiang Rai. Pattaya City is far to south on the Gulf of Thailand. The actual Pattaya Beach is for foreigners living or touring there, Russians especially given their mafia runs the place.

Reality is that the boys cannot be left there to wait it out. Diving 'em out is highly problematical. Drilling seems the only option by which USN rescuers want to innovate by drilling from under the cave rather than drill in the standard way which is through the walls. It seems Prayut doesn't want to hear any of it.
 
They will be submerged for 10 meters at each point

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Instead of having their own scuba tanks, the boys will have to rely on an individual navy rescue diver’s air supply shared with them along the way.

The divers will use a static rope attached to the cave walls to help guide each boy one-by-one through the cave system of completely flooded chambers and those with air pockets.

Oxygen “stage tanks” have been placed every 25 to 50 metres along the linked system of cave chambers so that the boys can get extra oxygen if needed.
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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/massive-challenge-in-mission-to-rescue-trapped-boys/news-story/c954b67c26830e4a31bff9a9808632f1
 
It may take the Thais four months to figure out what to do.

At least some people are speaking out against the dive 'em out plan of the prime minister Gen. Prayut...



‘Not Working’ – Doubts Raised Over Cave Rescue Plan


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CHIANG RAI — Celebrity twin rescuers said Thursday that it’s too dangerous to bring 13 people out through the cave’s entrance, suggesting finding or making a rescue shaft might be a better option.

Anxiety is running high over the fate of the group which has been trapped inside the Luang Khun Nam Nang Non cave in Chiang Rai province since June 23. Although flooding is a major obstacle and storms are expected soon, officials for now seem intent on a lowering water levels enough for them to come out the way they came.

But the star representative of a major rescue foundation said that, after four days, it’s “not working.”

“The water is still not going down. If you want it to go down by a meter, it’s going to take up to a month,” Bin Bunluerit said after finishing work with his team to widen chambers of the cave leading to the 12 boys and their coach. “Many people told me, please talk to someone, don’t make the kids escape through the water, it’s too risky.”

Bin has been working closely with the Ruamkatanyu Foundation, one of the nation’s largest rescue organizations.

“I dare say this: What we’re doing every day here is not working,” he said. “Water is still there. From the third chamber, SEALs have to dive four to five hours to reach the boys.” He also noted that the oxygen levels beyond this spot are falling low. “It’s very narrow, very difficult to bring things through. Only one person can go at a time,” said Ekkapun Bunluerit, Bin’s twin brother. ”

“It’s very difficult because of all the diving. From the third chamber to the Pattaya Beach chamber, water is filling up the whole way. A SEAL has to use four tanks. It’s kilometers [of diving],” he continued.

“I heard the kids said they heard sounds of chickens and dogs, which means there must be some shafts near them,” he said. “It’s totally safe. I don’t think we should risk diving. I want all 13 of them to be back.” Ekkapun said more cautiously that getting them out through shafts could be less risky, but still “will be difficult.”

Yesterday, a team of bird nest hunters and cliff climbing experts were urgently called back to the operation by the military to explore shafts for an alternative escape. Today, helicopters have also been flying over area throughout the day, suggesting more attention could be placed on finding a direct way to reach the boys from above the cave.

'Not Working' - Doubts Raised Over Cave Rescue Plan
 
Day 13 of Search and Rescue Operations



Rescuers look for 'hidden passage' as boys trapped in cave say they can hear animals

As Thai navy seals continue to give their crash courses in swimming and diving to the 12 schoolboys and their soccer coach trapped in a cave, it’s been revealed there may be another way out.

Rescue teams initially didn’t plan to rush the boys and their coach out, but heavy rains forecast for later this week are threatening to push forward those plans.

But the boys have now told rescue teams, including expert diver Claus Rasmussen, that during their nine days trapped in the Tham Luang Nang Non cave in northern Chiang Rai, they have heard dogs barking, roosters crowing and children playing.

According to CNN, crews are now looking to see if there is a hidden passage that they may be able to access rather than the incredibly dangerous alternative – a crash course in scuba diving.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rescuers...pped-cave-say-can-hear-animals-213826791.html









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Piyawat Chonsalingkarn and Monglong Saeho, Army Territorial Defense students at the nearby Mae Sai Prasitsart School, are assigned as interpreters for foreign reporters. The two are in the school's Multilingual Program and had been helping transport food and water supplies to the rescue teams.










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Seven Thai Navy Seals and medical personnel remain with the trapped boys at all times.
 
Lursa said:
You jumped on my post. Panicking has nothing to do with swimming. Or even a fear of water in this case. For example, scuba divers dont 'fear' water but in ice diving, wreck diving, cave diving...panic can still happen.
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Yea someone who already has a fear of water, and is unable to swim will have absolutely no issues, moving through a zero visibility underwater cave complex. I have absolutely no idea why my 21 years working with mother toddler groups, and OAP would make me think otherwise.
You're correct, what a silly idea of mine.....
 
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