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Should China Deport North Korean Defectors? - Linked Documentary

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laowhy86

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Hey all,

I recently went to the North Korean border in China, and discovered that China has it's very own North Korea within it's borders. I just finished producing a short documentary on this, and thought you guys would enjoy it. The real question is, should China be able to deport North Koreans back into North Korea, knowing their fate?
 
Come on in, make yourself comfortable.......
 
*In* before the mess.
 
laowhy86 said:
Hey all,

I recently went to the North Korean border in China, and discovered that China has it's very own North Korea within it's borders. I just finished producing a short documentary on this, and thought you guys would enjoy it. The real question is, should China be able to deport North Koreans back into North Korea, knowing their fate?
Click to expand...


Should China "be able" to do so?

Let us be clear, there are no individual civil rights for people in China (at least none that are respected by the Chinese government). The People's Republic of China is presently a authoritarian single-party police state (and one that I consider a Fascist state). They can and have forced women to have abortions. They are currently engaged in a secret war with the Islamic minority population in Eastern China. Up until recently, the Chinese government was literally harvesting the organs of thousands of "political dissidents" who were practicing a forbidden form of qi gong. I **** you not. They were murdering people over practicing a forbidden form of breathing exercises. If they could do all that with nary a peep from the international community to their own citizens, of course they are able to deport North Korean defectors to their deaths.

Now, should they do so? No. Of course not. But the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Republic has never been constrained by what is basically moral, just or decent.
 
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I think the presumption that China harbors North Korean defectors is wrong. Both China and North Korea are communist countries running under the same system. China refuses to grant refugee status to North Korean defectors and considers them illegal economic migrants.
 
Felis Leo said:
Should China "be able" to do so?

Let us be clear, there are no individual civil rights for people in China (at least none that are respected by the Chinese government). The People's Republic of China is presently a authoritarian single-party police state (and one that I consider a Fascist state). They can and have forced women to have abortions. They are currently engaged in a secret war with the Islamic minority population in Eastern China. Up until recently, the Chinese government was literally harvesting the organs of thousands of "political dissidents" who were practicing a forbidden form of qi gong. I **** you not. They were murdering people over practicing a forbidden form of breathing exercises. If they could do all that with nary a peep from the international community to their own citizens, of course they are able to deport North Korean defectors to their deaths.

Now, should they do so? No. Of course not. But the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Republic has never been constrained by what is basically moral, just or decent.
Click to expand...

I don't know why people don't really realize this...

China is 100% a Fascist state. They abandoned Communism and went to Fascism.... though the differences are small in the end, even National Socialism...

I think people don't want to recognize this because then they have to come to grips with National Socialism is different than Fascism. China is more Capitalist than the USA in some ways.... in other ways not of course. The rule of law when it comes to business there is very fickle. It is 100% reactionary.

How China law works= if you make a scene or draw negative attention to yourself or business that attracts government officals, you are getting investigated and cracked down... otherwise, Wild West...
 
ThirdTerm said:
I think the presumption that China harbors North Korean defectors is wrong. Both China and North Korea are communist countries running under the same system. China refuses to grant refugee status to North Korean defectors and considers them illegal economic migrants.
Click to expand...

China isnt economically communist
 
Is anyone who's responding to the OP-er's question someone who's got skin in the game of what China does with DPRK defectors?
 
Xelor said:
Is anyone who's responding to the OP-er's question someone who's got skin in the game of what China does with DPRK defectors?
Click to expand...

Only in as much as it matters what happens to our fellow human beings.
 
laowhy86 said:
Hey all,

I recently went to the North Korean border in China, and discovered that China has it's very own North Korea within it's borders. I just finished producing a short documentary on this, and thought you guys would enjoy it. The real question is, should China be able to deport North Koreans back into North Korea, knowing their fate?
Click to expand...

Thoughts About the Video:
Very nicely done video. Props especially for mentioning the amiable nature of the people. That was my experience everywhere I've been in the PRC. Indeed, as you know, it's very possible to spend lots of time in the PRC and never really think much about or encounter anything political.

One thing that wasn't clear to me from watching the video is whether the "North Korea in China," as you put it, is merely an immigrant community comprised mostly of North Korean immigrants, similar, sao, to "Little Italy" in NYC or "Little Havana" in Miami, or whether there's some sort of political delineation similar to certain Native American areas in the U.S. Perhaps you are calling attention to the residents' legal or illegal status which is why you've called the area "North Korea in China?"​


Normative Thoughts:
Upon what is founded the subjunctivity of the normative question you've posed in your OP? You're asking should China be able to do something China already can do and that nobody has any right or ability to tell China otherwise. From where I sit it's not a normative thing. China's a sovereign nation just as the U.S., the DPRK, etc. are. While I'm not keen on Trump's approach to immigration, I recognize too that every nation is free to define its own laws about what to do with illegal immigrants. Sure, I have my views about what the U.S.' laws on that matter ought to be, but regardless of what those views in that regard be, their applicability stops at the U.S. border.

I say that as someone who, in the run-up to Iraq War II when Bush was talking about "Iraqis' freedom," was of the mind that I didn't give a wet rat's ass about Iraqis' freedom, and I wasn't ever going to care enough about it to go to war for it. When Iraq becomes the 51st state (or some later number), then I'll care about Iraqis' freedom. When Iraqis (or anyone else) peacefully arrive in the U.S., I care about the freedoms they are given. While Iraqis are living in Iraq, whatever freedoms they have or don't is Iraqis' and Iraq's concern, not mine.

Mind, it's not that I'm indifferent about humaneness; it's that I know what national sovereignty entails. As much as the U.S. would like to "be all up in everyone's business," and despite Americans thinking they have imprimatur as global arbiters of everything, "all up in" China's domestic policy that the U.S. and U.S. citizens don't belong. No other nation belongs in ours either.​
 
laowhy86 said:
Hey all,

I recently went to the North Korean border in China, and discovered that China has it's very own North Korea within it's borders. I just finished producing a short documentary on this, and thought you guys would enjoy it. The real question is, should China be able to deport North Koreans back into North Korea, knowing their fate?
Click to expand...


By the way, I should have mentioned earlier that I really enjoy yours and Winston's work and have been following your work on Youtube for the last couple years, and I didn't realize that it was you. Welcome to the forum.
 
Thank you for your notes on the video.
Most of the ethnic Koreans in the area are, in fact, Chinese citizens, but identify with being Korean, both in language and culture.
There are, however, thousands of North Koreans as well, many victims of human trafficking, or in the process of running away from North Korea.

My point of the debate was that most nations will deport North Korean refugees to South Korea, where they have a program set up to help the refugees set up a new life in Seoul.
China forcibly deports them back to North Korea, where most end up in labor camps, or executed.
My question was, should China change their policy to support the system in South Korea, or continue to deport back to North Korea?
 
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