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China says Trump wants 'regional hegemony' in South China Sea

Tangmo said:
A long time to finally just now formally nominate Gen. Mattis as SecDef after having initially put his name forward.

My post did not say a long time to put forward a name(s). Nor did my post say a long time to put forward the name of Gen. Mattis -- or any name. (Kindly read what a post does say.)

I'd also reiterate Trump and Gen. Mattis will need a number two and other civilian leaders at the Pentagon who know more than a little about running the place. Which means Trump will have to continue to run his net through the existing swamp to bring in more alligators, er, people with the knowledge and experience to do the job.

Trump or someone in the WH will have to keep Mattis and LTG Michael Flynn on a short leash in their dealings with one another. They're not exactly bitter personal enemies but neither are they the best of friends. Neither does Army like to be put under the crotch, er, the Corps in the command structure of the U.S. military.

Marine Corps commandant being eligible to be chairman of JCS is a recent development only (given USMC had always been under the CNO) that began with Rumsfeld and GW. So now we get Marine generals as chairman of JCS which is fine, but it severely breaks all tradition and military history, which matters in the military.
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All this whining about how fast the cabinet get selected is some of the silliest **** I've seen since the campaign started. What does it matter?
 
American said:
All this whining about how fast the cabinet get selected is some of the silliest **** I've seen since the campaign started. What does it matter?
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Topic is the South China Sea, Trump, CCP Dictators in Beijing, Air Defense Identification Zone etc as presented in the OP.

Not GW or Trump and cabinet at any point in the presidency of either.

Kindly get with the program plse thx.

Trade, bilateral commerce of USA-CCP, currency etc might need a separate thread. I'd be happy to oblige if no one else would be so inclined at this time.
 
Tangmo said:
Topic is the South China Sea, Trump, CCP Dictators in Beijing, Air Defense Identification Zone etc as presented in the OP.

Not GW or Trump and cabinet at any point in the presidency of either.

Kindly get with the program plse thx.

Trade, bilateral commerce of USA-CCP, currency etc might need a separate thread. I'd be happy to oblige if no one else would be so inclined at this time.
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:lamo I was responding to you. Follow you own advice.
 
Looks like if Jim Mattis gets to be SecDef his fist act will be to dodge nukes incoming from CCP China...


Trump speaks with Taiwanese president, a major break with decades of U.S. policy on China


President-elect Donald Trump spoke Friday with Taiwan’s president, a major departure from decades of U.S. policy in Asia and a breach of diplomatic protocol with ramifications for the incoming president’s relations with China.

The call is the first known contact between a U.S. president or president-elect with a Taiwanese leader since before the United States broke diplomatic relations with the island in 1979. China considers Taiwan a province, and news of the official outreach by Trump is likely to infuriate the regional military and economic power.

The exchange...comes at a particularly tense time between China and Taiwan, which earlier this year elected a president, Tsai Ing-wen, who has refused to accept the notion of a unified China under Beijing’s rule. Her election angered Beijing to the point of cutting off all official communication with the island government.

It is not clear whether Trump intends a more formal shift in U.S. relations with Taiwan or China. On the call, Trump and Tsai congratulated each other on winning election, a statement from Trump’s transition office said.

“During the discussion, they noted the close economic, political, and security ties . . . between Taiwan and the United States.” a statement from Trump’s transition office said.

“The president of Taiwan CALLED ME today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency.” (emphasis added)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...72c82123976_story.html?utm_term=.0d2453bc42f0


CCP are a 21st century fascist force in the region and the world, however, I would not recommend any direct contact with the President of Taiwan, Ms. Hsai Ing-wen and the Potus-Elect of the USA.

Dr. Hsai, a lawyer, is leader of the Democratic Progressive Party which advocates independence and which for the first time controls the presidency and the parliament, since January.

CCP Dictators in Beijing are unquestionably going to go ballistic on this. It unquestionably is the Number One Sorepoint of the 1.6 billion Chinese. All of 'em. Every last one of 'em.

What's next, nuke a CCP island in the South China Sea...
 
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Tangmo said:
Looks like if Jim Mattis gets to be SecDef his fist act will be to dodge nukes incoming from CCP China...


Trump speaks with Taiwanese president, a major break with decades of U.S. policy on China


President-elect Donald Trump spoke Friday with Taiwan’s president, a major departure from decades of U.S. policy in Asia and a breach of diplomatic protocol with ramifications for the incoming president’s relations with China.

The call is the first known contact between a U.S. president or president-elect with a Taiwanese leader since before the United States broke diplomatic relations with the island in 1979. China considers Taiwan a province, and news of the official outreach by Trump is likely to infuriate the regional military and economic power.

The exchange...comes at a particularly tense time between China and Taiwan, which earlier this year elected a president, Tsai Ing-wen, who has refused to accept the notion of a unified China under Beijing’s rule. Her election angered Beijing to the point of cutting off all official communication with the island government.

It is not clear whether Trump intends a more formal shift in U.S. relations with Taiwan or China. On the call, Trump and Tsai congratulated each other on winning election, a statement from Trump’s transition office said.

“During the discussion, they noted the close economic, political, and security ties . . . between Taiwan and the United States.” a statement from Trump’s transition office said.

“The president of Taiwan CALLED ME today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency.” (emphasis added)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...72c82123976_story.html?utm_term=.0d2453bc42f0


CCP are a 21st century fascist force in the region and the world, however, I would not recommend any direct contact with the President of Taiwan, Ms. Hsai Ing-wen and the Potus-Elect of the USA.

Dr. Hsai, a lawyer, is leader of the Democratic Progressive Party which advocates independence and which for the first time controls the presidency and the parliament, since January.

CCP Dictators in Beijing are unquestionably going to go ballistic on this. It unquestionably is the Number One Sorepoint of the 1.6 billion Chinese. All of 'em. Every last one of 'em.

What's next, nuke a CCP island in the South China Sea...
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Why shouldnt taiwan be an independent country?
 
Mac77 said:
Why shouldnt taiwan be an independent country?
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It is and always has been, since 1949.

Taiwan is a sovereign state.

Domestically it has control over its territory and population. Internationally it is limited by CCP Dictators in Beijing who hate democracy anywhere, but democracy by Chinese is a knife to the heart of CCP Dictators.

Trump's advisers on CCP Dictators in Beijing are aggressive about CCP and on the side of Taiwan. Frankly, I'd thought CCP Boyz in Beijing would go publicly ballistic, but publicly they're basically ignoring it -- in Beijing today CCP are privately livid and severely threatened by this. Taiwan is an all or nothing to Beijing, and Trump has decided to give 'em nothing. Trump just put CCP on their back foot and in their own back yard.

Here's what John "Nuke 'em all" Bolton is whispering in Trump's ear, as Bolton wrote in WSJ in January: “The new U.S. administration could start with receiving Taiwanese diplomats officially at the State Department; upgrading the status of U.S. representation in Taipei from a private ‘institute’ to an official diplomatic mission; inviting Taiwan’s president to travel officially to America; allowing the most senior U.S. officials to visit Taiwan to transact government business; and ultimately restoring full diplomatic recognition.”

CCP Dictators have to decide now which it is for 'em, i.e., nuke Taiwan or give it over to the USA. The former is a sh!t sandwich and the latter is a sh!t dumpling. They'll take the dumpling.

The Chinese learned a couple of thousand years ago not to mess with a mad dog. Any time the Chinese can't win without firing a shot, they lose. Every time. This is a big fall for 'em. Bigger they are the harder they fall.
 
Tangmo said:
It is and always has been, since 1949.

Taiwan is a sovereign state.

Domestically it has control over its territory and population. Internationally it is limited by CCP Dictators in Beijing who hate democracy anywhere, but democracy by Chinese is a knife to the heart of CCP Dictators.

Trump's advisers on CCP Dictators in Beijing are aggressive about CCP and on the side of Taiwan. Frankly, I'd thought CCP Boyz in Beijing would go publicly ballistic, but publicly they're basically ignoring it -- in Beijing today CCP are privately livid and severely threatened by this. Taiwan is an all or nothing to Beijing, and Trump has decided to give 'em nothing. Trump just put CCP on their back foot and in their own back yard.

Here's what John "Nuke 'em all" Bolton is whispering in Trump's ear, as Bolton wrote in WSJ in January: “The new U.S. administration could start with receiving Taiwanese diplomats officially at the State Department; upgrading the status of U.S. representation in Taipei from a private ‘institute’ to an official diplomatic mission; inviting Taiwan’s president to travel officially to America; allowing the most senior U.S. officials to visit Taiwan to transact government business; and ultimately restoring full diplomatic recognition.”

CCP Dictators have to decide now which it is for 'em, i.e., nuke Taiwan or give it over to the USA. The former is a sh!t sandwich and the latter is a sh!t dumpling. They'll take the dumpling.

The Chinese learned a couple of thousand years ago not to mess with a mad dog. Any time the Chinese can't win without firing a shot, they lose. Every time. This is a big fall for 'em. Bigger they are the harder they fall.
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China - meaning the communists - claim Taiwan as part of china

I think the Nationalists have given up dreams of returning to the mainland now just want remain free of the Reds

And I hope they can
 
Mac77 said:
China is blowing smoke up the lib anti trumpsters ass.

If anything trump is too much of a dove instead of a hawk
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"lib anti trumpsters ass". Hummm... K....




Glad to hear from someone with twenty years experience as a student of Chinese-American relations followed by another twenty years of actual diplomatic experience.

What's that you say? You don't have any experience or relevant knowledge, and are still doing victory laps so as to avoid confronting the fact that your anti-establishment candidate is more "establishment" than his opponent and couldn't be paid to give half a **** about you, about fighting Washington, or anything else other than himself - including international relations?




I hope you do realize that the world today is a powder keg of hostile relations between countries, which keg the U.S. has painstakingly fought for decades to stop from exploding. Diplomacy isn't a joke. I hope you won't still be doing this juvenile victory dance if (hopefully not when) one of Trump's inevitable blunders results in yet another pointless war, sending thousands of young men home in bags.

(And of course, if it came to a war with China, we'd be talking millions. Tens of millions. Who knows?)

We obviously cannot completely capitulate to foreign bullies, but we have to pick our battles with care. We have to approach tense situations with finesse. You can't just go around teabagging the world unless you're willing to fight big wars, which history inevitably laments.
 
Mac77 said:
Why shouldnt taiwan be an independent country?
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That's not the relevant question.


The relevant question is whether the United States should play World Police with China. Specifically, the question is how many dead young Americans and dollar bills we're willing to spend - or, at the very least, how big of a hit to our economy, to "jobs" and the like, we're willing to take - to help Taiwan become independent.

Again, this isn't a joke. It's also not some simplistic and childish question about whether we like communists or whether we think communists are doodoo-heads.
 
german hick said:
one third of all US depts holds China - I´m no buisnees expert, but would it be wise to go on conflict?
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It's not like the US is going to repay them. In fact, Keynesian economics proposes increasing debts without thoughts of repayment to stimulate economic growth through expansionary monetary policy via the central bank. Look at it the opposite way, if China can't sell all their cheap goods to the US, which requires no export tax for China, who are they going to sell it to? Their economy goes belly up without the U.S. consumer purchasing at cheap prices. A more even playing field sounds good to me as China's been having their way with America now since the late 1970's and America's been saying, "Thank you sir, may I have another". Change is not always a bad thing....
 
Mr Person said:
"lib anti trumpsters ass". Hummm... K....

Glad to hear from someone with twenty years experience as a student of Chinese-American relations followed by another twenty years of actual diplomatic experience.

What's that you say? You don't have any experience or relevant knowledge, and are still doing victory laps so as to avoid confronting the fact that your anti-establishment candidate is more "establishment" than his opponent and couldn't be paid to give half a **** about you, about fighting Washington, or anything else other than himself - including international relations?




I hope you do realize that the world today is a powder keg of hostile relations between countries, which keg the U.S. has painstakingly fought for decades to stop from exploding. Diplomacy isn't a joke. I hope you won't still be doing this juvenile victory dance if (hopefully not when) one of Trump's inevitable blunders results in yet another pointless war, sending thousands of young men home in bags.

(And of course, if it came to a war with China, we'd be talking millions. Tens of millions. Who knows?)

We obviously cannot completely capitulate to foreign bullies, but we have to pick our battles with care. We have to approach tense situations with finesse. You can't just go around teabagging the world unless you're willing to fight big wars, which history inevitably laments.
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And I'm glad you stopped sucking your thumb long enough to share your vast knowledge with us.

I think the United States can choose its friends without interference from communist china

If you know anything about china you must know they are preparing for a major war with the US if thats what it takes to drive us out of asia which the chinese consider to be their sphere of influence that we are interferind with
 
celticwar17 said:
China is the one country I severely dislike. In my opinion, they are the worlds most dangerous country.
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Do you just swallow everything your government tells you to hook line and sinker ? They tell you who to hate and you still blindly hate them despite Vietnam, Watergate and Iraq ?
 
flogger said:
Do you just swallow everything your government tells you to hook line and sinker ? They tell you who to hate and you still blindly hate them despite Vietnam, Watergate and Iraq ?
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Dude... I'm Libertarian, I don't give 2 craps about what my government says or thinks.

I know China, I've been there once... I've dated like 2 Chinese girls... one really opened the door to me to that world. It's quite a bit different, and mostly for the negative.
 
We need to knock china off it's hill..
 
celticwar17 said:
Dude... I'm Libertarian, I don't give 2 craps about what my government says or thinks.

I know China, I've been there once... I've dated like 2 Chinese girls... one really opened the door to me to that world. It's quite a bit different, and mostly for the negative.
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I've been to China four times and got quite the opposite impression. Around 600 million of its people have been lifted out of poverty in just the last 15 years .In the meantime poverty and destitution thrive in the US

China is booming and the US really fears that. Its what this miltary provocation of it is all about and why your government is programming you to fear it
 
celticwar17 said:
China is the one country I severely dislike. In my opinion, they are the worlds most dangerous country.
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Nonsense. Put it this way how would you feel if China tried to declare hegemony of the seas off your Pacific seaboard ?

As for it being the most dangerous country lets give that some context by looking at the relative military spending

4A8078449E794DFB8CC33ADD00A6F1AF.jpg
discretionary_spending_pie,_2015_enacted_large.jpg

China spends 2% of its GDP on defence which is pretty much the average for most developed countries and which hasn't changed much in 20 years.

The US spends 4.5% GDP which represents over half of its tax dollars
 
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celticwar17 said:
What I say... is to give heavy incentives to get away from business in China, and take those incentives to Vietnam or any other asian economy that competes with China.
Like a 5-10% tax or all goods coming from China.... and a 10-15% tax break on all goods and investments going into and out of Vietnam. Make Vietnam the new Manufacturing powerhouse.

We need to stop feeding the beast... or at the very least make them turn back restrictions on American businesses in China(which won't happen, so make it an Ultimatum). U.S. Businesses and goods have so much more restrictions in China than Chinese businesses and goods do in the US.
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too bad the answer isn't so childishly simple. US companies sell a lot to China and have a lot of partnerships there now. Real life is complicated.
 
flogger said:
I've been to China four times and got quite the opposite impression. Around 600 million of its people have been lifted out of poverty in just the last 15 years .In the meantime poverty and destitution thrive in the US

China is booming and the US really fears that. Its what this miltary provocation of it is all about and why your government is programming you to fear it
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China is booming at our expense

And they are using part of the wealth they get from America to expand their military

Thats not good
 
Mac77 said:
China is booming at our expense
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They are booming off the back of their own efforts. That this impacts not just the US but every other developed country is just too bad. Indeed one might say its belated justice after centuries of Western exploitation of China

And they are using part of the wealth they get from America to expand their military
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So what ? It is expanding as the Chinese economy expands. This has happened with every booming economy and its still just 2% of their GDP just like it was decades ago. The world average for defence spending is 2.6% GDP BTW

Thats not good
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It is for them. Its the US that wants to provoke a new arms race not China. Its what these US naval provocations are all about in Chinese waters
 
Militant_Vegan_ said:
too bad the answer isn't so childishly simple. US companies sell a lot to China and have a lot of partnerships there now. Real life is complicated.
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What? That has nothing to do with the completely uneven treatment China gives US companies in comparison to Chinese companies for the US.
 
flogger said:
Nonsense. Put it this way how would you feel if China tried to declare hegemony of the seas off your Pacific seaboard ?

As for it being the most dangerous country lets give that some context by looking at the relative military spending

View attachment 67210923
View attachment 67210924

China spends 2% of its GDP on defence which is pretty much the average for most developed countries and which hasn't changed much in 20 years.

The US spends 4.5% GDP which represents over half of its tax dollars
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I don't care how much the US spends on it's military, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion... I mean I do care, I wish it was less, but the US has the military spending it has for good reason, the US provides the security for half the world and is the only power keeping China and Russia in check... which has brought peace in the last 70 years with no direct wars between the highest economy powers.

And China doesn't just declare hegemony... they outright ignore sovereignty of countries like Taiwan. If the US did not keep China in check, they would be taking over the entire southeast Asia.
 
flogger said:
Nonsense. Put it this way how would you feel if China tried to declare hegemony of the seas off your Pacific seaboard ?

As for it being the most dangerous country lets give that some context by looking at the relative military spending

View attachment 67210923
View attachment 67210924

China spends 2% of its GDP on defence which is pretty much the average for most developed countries and which hasn't changed much in 20 years.

The US spends 4.5% GDP which represents over half of its tax dollars
Click to expand...

Correction.

China reports spending 2%

No one knows the real number
 
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