Star Wars the new trilogy

The biggest problem with the new Star Wars trilogy is that is not a trilogy. That the first movie was a fan pleasing movie that left a lot of unanswered questions.


The second movie ignored those questions and the old movies because it was time to let go of the past.


While the third movie seem to become both a very nostalgic and fan pleasing movie. There you suddenly magically will have a lot of rebels that can fight massive battles against the new Empire. That after the known rebels have been decimated to fit inside the Millenium Falcon in the last movie.

Agreed. The character assassination of Luke Skywalker in TLJ ruined the franchise for me. It was poorly written and tested the suspension of disbelief one must employ for this kind of movie owing to problems with the continuity. I know SW has always had continuity problems, but in this film they were endemic.

I do like the implied concept that Rey and Kilo may somehow bring balance, but whether this is developed further remans to be seen.

People expect too much from children's movies about space heroes.

ecofarm said:

People expect too much from children's movies about space heroes.

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Spoken like a true Sith.

The hive mind of the internet has decreed that TFA is alright, TLJ is horrible, and that the prequels are suddenly not that bad.

OK then. Go ahead and redeem Revenge of the Sith, which has the most blatantly anti-fascist message in the history of the Star Wars movie franchise. :lol:

Chaddelamancha said:

Spoken like a true Sith.

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Bergslagstroll said:

The biggest problem with the new Star Wars trilogy is that is not a trilogy. That the first movie was a fan pleasing movie that left a lot of unanswered questions.


The second movie ignored those questions and the old movies because it was time to let go of the past.


While the third movie seem to become both a very nostalgic and fan pleasing movie. There you suddenly magically will have a lot of rebels that can fight massive battles against the new Empire. That after the known rebels have been decimated to fit inside the Millenium Falcon in the last movie.

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As someone who has never actually seen the original movies (born just too late to not even see the prequels) in whole but knows exactly what happens because they are so ubiquitous in pop culture I actually quite enjoy the new trilogy movies and that goes for everyone I know in the same situation. I imagine because others and myself have no nostalgia glasses for anything related to the original movies. Anyone who describes themselves as a fan of Star Wars hates the new trilogy but everyone else seems to like them. It is Star Wars for a new generation.

I think Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie.

Carjosse said:

As someone who has never actually seen the original movies (born just too late to not even see the prequels) in whole but knows exactly what happens because they are so ubiquitous in pop culture I actually quite enjoy the new trilogy movies and that goes for everyone I know in the same situation. I imagine because others and myself have no nostalgia glasses for anything related to the original movies. Anyone who describes themselves as a fan of Star Wars hates the new trilogy but everyone else seems to like them. It is Star Wars for a new generation.

I think Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie.

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I too think Rogue One is the best of the franchise. The themes were challenging (terrorist or freedom fighter etc.) and it lacked the usual elements designed to appeal to children (Ewoks and the like), and I did not expect Disney to produce a film with such socio-political commentary. I'm a fan of SW and I don't hate the new trilogy, but I do note the continuity problems and the poor character development of Luke Skywalker. In addition, someone mentioned internet hive think (who are these people anyway?) and that too was a false generalisation, as the film can be judged honestly on its merits. I found The Last Jedi somewhat 'forced' (pardon the pun), but I also thought that of ROTJ.

NWO_Spook said:

I too think Rogue One is the best of the franchise. The themes were challenging (terrorist or freedom fighter etc.) and it lacked the usual elements designed to appeal to children (Ewoks and the like), and I did not expect Disney to produce a film with such socio-political commentary. I'm a fan of SW and I don't hate the new trilogy, but I do note the continuity problems and the poor character development of Luke Skywalker. In addition, someone mentioned internet hive think (who are these people anyway?) and that too was a false generalisation, as the film can be judged honestly on its merits. I found The Last Jedi somewhat 'forced' (pardon the pun), but I also thought that of ROTJ.

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Again as an outsider so to speak of the Star Wars franchise I liked the direction they took with Luke, made his character more complex. I personally could not care less about the continuity, firstly because I am not invested in the original plot or characters from the original trilogy at all and secondly it is an action sci-fi movie, the bar should not be that high to begin with.

I think Rogue One is the best because it can truly stand on its own and like you said included some good commentary on society and a bit of moral ambiguity.

Some filmmakers just don't know when to quit. Case in point: This franchise.

Shoulda stopped at ROTJ. The problem with these new movies? No plot, but the action scenes and CGI keeps the idiot moviegoers from realizing that.

Roadvirus said:

Some filmmakers just don't know when to quit. Case in point: This franchise.

Shoulda stopped at ROTJ. The problem with these new movies? No plot, but the action scenes and CGI keeps the idiot moviegoers from realizing that.

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Because the originals are pinnacles of great storytelling somehow? Like I have said in my previous posts the new trilogy is for a new generation.

Carjosse said:

Again as an outsider so to speak of the Star Wars franchise I liked the direction they took with Luke, made his character more complex.

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Hmmm, I thought it returned the characterisation to his 'pre-Yoda' persona and it didn't develop at all, but regressed.

I personally could not care less about the continuity, firstly because I am not invested in the original plot or characters from the original trilogy at all and secondly it is an action sci-fi movie, the bar should not be that high to begin with.

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I feel if it is an ongoing saga then the continuity should be a primary concern, however, I am a writer myself and I suppose I'm judging it by my own standards.

I think Rogue One is the best because it can truly stand on its own and like you said included some good commentary on society and a bit of moral ambiguity.

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Indeed.

NWO_Spook said:

Hmmm, I thought it returned the characterisation to his 'pre-Yoda' persona and it didn't develop at all, but regressed.



I feel if it is an ongoing saga then the continuity should be a primary concern, however, I am a writer myself and I suppose I'm judging it by my own standards.



Indeed.

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Because the original trilogy was so good at continuity:


The plots of the original movies also had more holes than swiss cheese. Doesn't make them bad, but it feels like the pot calling the kettle black.

Carjosse said:

Because the original trilogy was so good at continuity:


The plots of the original movies also had more holes than swiss cheese. Doesn't make them bad, but it feels like the pot calling the kettle black.

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Oh, I never stated that the original trilogy didn't have continuity problems, and I actually acknowledged that in an earlier post (see post #2). It has been a problem with the franchise since Lucas introduced the filial concepts (a mistake I feel, but a commercially viable) and they just keep compounding.

Roadvirus said:

Some filmmakers just don't know when to quit. Case in point: This franchise.

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That's because you're looking at it as art instead of as a turbo charged golden egg-firing machinegoose.

Difficult to argue with an ROI like that.

For me, Star Wars was wrecked after the 90's edits and the whole "Han Shot First" thing, which was a pale foreshadowing of what they are doing today.

WillyPete said:

That's because you're looking at it as art instead of as a turbo charged golden egg-firing machinegoose.

Difficult to argue with an ROI like that.

For me, Star Wars was wrecked after the 90's edits and the whole "Han Shot First" thing, which was a pale foreshadowing of what they are doing today.

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It's a shame I feel that we can no longer see the original edit of Star Wars (ANH as it is now known), for it stood on its merits as a homage to cinema serials of the 30's and 40's. But that's an artistic appraisal I suppose and not a commercial concern.

WillyPete said:

That's because you're looking at it as art instead of as a turbo charged golden egg-firing machinegoose.

Difficult to argue with an ROI like that.

For me, Star Wars was wrecked after the 90's edits and the whole "Han Shot First" thing, which was a pale foreshadowing of what they are doing today.

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What is this Han Solo Shot First thing and how does it affect things?

Carjosse said:

What is this Han Solo Shot First thing and how does it affect things?

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In the first film (IV,) in the cantina where Obi Wan chops off the rowdy alien's arm, and we first meet Han Solo, Han shoots bounty hunter Greedo.

In the original theatrical version, Han shot Greedo from under the table, and that was the only shot fired. It was a pre-emptive self-defense killing, and it set Han up as a bit a badass.

In the edited version, it is made to appear that Greedo got off a wild shot off first, missing wide from point blank range, making it appear Han is far more lucky than he is dangerous.

As a young man my favorite character was Han Solo, and the totally unnecessary and ridiculous edit ~20 years after the release was over the line for me.

WillyPete said:

In the first film (IV,) in the cantina where Obi Wan chops off the rowdy alien's arm, and we first meet Han Solo, Han shoots bounty hunter Greedo.

In the original theatrical version, Han shot Greedo from under the table, and that was the only shot fired. It was a pre-emptive self-defense killing, and it set Han up as a bit a badass.

In the edited version, it is made to appear that Greedo got off a wild shot off first, missing wide from point blank range, making it appear Han is far more lucky than he is dangerous.

As a young man my favorite character was Han Solo, and the totally unnecessary and ridiculous edit ~20 years after the release was over the line for me.

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That does sound dumb but I feel like it is always what happens with these franchises with so much fan investment. A similar thing is slowly happening to Harry potter with JK Rowling unnecessarily retconning everything over Twitter.

Carjosse said:

That does sound dumb but I feel like it is always what happens with these franchises with so much fan investment. A similar thing is slowly happening to Harry potter with JK Rowling unnecessarily retconning everything over Twitter.

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It has become a pet peeve, as these small changes can and do matter to the story, and when you're invested, it's always frustrating when they break their own internal logic, especially just to made an extra buck on an already successful piece of art.

Best I spare you my rants on Terminator and Game of Thrones, but there are similar issues with those franchises.

They're their worlds to wreck. I only get to pick when I get off the wagon.

Carjosse said:

As someone who has never actually seen the original movies (born just too late to not even see the prequels) in whole but knows exactly what happens because they are so ubiquitous in pop culture I actually quite enjoy the new trilogy movies and that goes for everyone I know in the same situation. I imagine because others and myself have no nostalgia glasses for anything related to the original movies. Anyone who describes themselves as a fan of Star Wars hates the new trilogy but everyone else seems to like them. It is Star Wars for a new generation.

I think Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie.

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I also enjoyed Rogue One. The Force Awakening could have been so much more. That it could have given a glimpse into what happened since the Return of the Jedi. While also presenting a new and complex story and world building. Instead it was basically a rehash of ragtag rebels against the evil empire. Still it was a fun movie to watch and you had some nostalgic movement that us old fans could enjoy.

While the problem with the The Last Jedi was not only that it disregarded the old movies, the old heroes and even the Force Awakening but also that I didn’t enjoy the story. That basically it was a slow massacre of the rebels over the whole movies. Also that massacre didn’t accomplish anything except that heroes could escape and survive. That not only did all the heroes survive while almost everyone else died but they could also go on pointless sidequests. Also Luke sacrifice came after most of the rebels had died and their ships destroyed and also only slowed down the bad guys a bit. Alsp that Luke died because he was too old and tired to do a force projection.

That things would have worked all a lot better if at the start of the movie Rey had taken a X-Wing to meet Luke, the other heroes ecaped in the Millennium Falcon, Admiral Ackbar did a heroic sacrifice by taking out the big enemy ship with the big rebel ship while all the other rebel ships splintered in all directions. While it had force the people responsibility for the movie to come up with a more complex story.

Yes I know I sound like a really grumpy old fan.