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Thread: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

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    Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Definition of "art":


    " n. - something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings"

    Examples:

    Mercy: David Spareth the Life of Saul, by Richard Dadd in The Getty Center





    The Pieta by Michelangelo Buonarrati, in the Sistine Chapel

    Pieta.jpg

    Definition of "artifice":


    ar·ti·fice - ˈärdəfəs - noun - clever or cunning devices or expedients, especially as used to trick or deceive others. outright fakery
    synonyms - trickery, deceit, deception, duplicity, guile, chicanery
    ________________________________
    Examples:


    Leda and the Swan, sold for $56,900,000 at Christie's Auction
    Leda and the Swan by Cy Twombly ,887,500 May 2017.jpg


    La Hara by Basquiat $35,000,000

    La Hara, Basquiat, May 2017 million.jpg
    Last edited by MrWonderful; 03-11-19 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Mercy painting jpg file simply will not load
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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonderful View Post
    Definition of "art":


    " n. - something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings"

    Examples:

    Mercy: David Spareth the Life of Saul, by Richard Dadd in The Getty Center





    The Pieta by Michelangelo Buonarrati, in the Sistine Chapel

    Pieta.jpg

    Definition of "artifice":


    ar·ti·fice - ˈärdəfəs - noun - clever or cunning devices or expedients, especially as used to trick or deceive others. outright fakery
    synonyms - trickery, deceit, deception, duplicity, guile, chicanery
    ________________________________
    Examples:


    Leda and the Swan, sold for $56,900,000 at Christie's Auction
    Leda and the Swan by Cy Twombly ,887,500 May 2017.jpg


    La Hara by Basquiat $35,000,000

    La Hara, Basquiat, May 2017 million.jpg
    One man's trash is another man's treasure.....

    God knows, I'm probably not the best person to judge the relative merits of a piece of art..... but I find if you're willing to put the time into trying to understand a masterpiece, it's usually worth the effort.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    You forgot personal and subjective.


    In other words, you are laboring between art, and FINE art. The later of the 2 being more a tax dodging scheme.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided


    "Big-time" art isn't my thing, but I presume the piece is a visual representation of Yeats' "Leda and the Swan," which is a sonnet proclaiming Zeus' rape of Queen Leda as an announcement, an indicator of an inflection point in history, the Trojan War, that marked the onset of extant civilization's ruin. There's more than that going on in the poem, but that it's about a rape and resulting impregnation says enough to introduce what I have to say about Twombly's painting.

    While I "get" Yeats, I have no "effing" idea of how Twombly's scrawl above depicts anything having to do with Zeus, Leda, or Yeats' sonnet. Using only the piece's title as a guide, the most I see is violent scribble and maybe an abstract vagina. Were it not for Yeats' having been taught in high school English lit, I wouldn't, even seeing the painting's title have any idea of what calamity it portrays.


    A sudden blow: the great wings beating still
    Above the staggering girl, her thighs caressed
    By the dark webs, her nape caught in his bill,
    He holds her helpless breast upon his breast.

    How can those terrified vague fingers push
    The feathered glory from her loosening thighs?
    And how can body, laid in that white rush,
    But feel the strange heart beating where it lies?

    A shudder in the loins engenders there
    The broken wall, the burning roof and tower
    And Agamemnon dead.
    Being so caught up,
    So mastered by the brute blood of the air,
    Did she put on his knowledge with his power
    Before the indifferent beak could let her drop?
    -- William Butler Yeats, "Leda and the Swan"

    As go paintings and drawings, for the most part, they need to contain some sort of recognizable imagery for me to cotton to them. There're some exceptions to that, but not too many. Just as in written expression I hew strongly to unambiguously expressed thoughts, I "need" my art to be much the same, perhaps more so insofar as recondite imagery that "speaks a thousand words," as it were, makes one work really hard to get into the artist's head, so to speak. I just don't want to work that hard for something that I will only view and that has no words.
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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    One man's trash is another man's treasure.....

    God knows, I'm probably not the best person to judge the relative merits of a piece of art..... but I find if you're willing to put the time into trying to understand a masterpiece, it's usually worth the effort.
    "Art is created with skill."

    Please give the audience YOUR take on the "skill" necessary to throw paint onto a canvas, or piss into a glass jar and drop a crucifix inside it, viz., "Piss Christ," subsidized by taxpayers.

    No. 17A by Jackson Pollock, sold for $200,000,000
    Something YOU call "a masterpiece" because you have been told it is so by your betters....of the Left, bien sur.


    No 17A by Jason Pollock 0 million.jpg
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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonderful View Post
    "Art is created with skill."

    Please give the audience YOUR take on the "skill" necessary to throw paint onto a canvas, or piss into a glass jar and drop a crucifix inside it, viz., "Piss Christ," subsidized by taxpayers.

    No. 17A by Jackson Pollock, sold for $200,000,000
    Something YOU call "a masterpiece" because you have been told it is so by your betters....of the Left, bien sur.


    No 17A by Jason Pollock 0 million.jpg
    Ahhh... But you're confusing craftsmanship with art. Art isn't about skill.... it's about the message. Craftsmanship means getting something just right.

    Michelangelo's Pieta is a work that has a high level of craftsmanship.... it's nearly technically perfect. But as art, what is it's message? You don't have to think too hard about it... it pretty much clubs you over the head.

    Now take a modern work like Andres Serrano's Piss Christ.... it has a pretty low level of craftsmanship, but I think the message is even more profound. It took me a while and a lot of thinking to get it, but what I eventually realized is that God is the Creator of the Universe, in all of it's diversity... but if your version of God is so limited and so petty to be offended by a crucifex being put into a jar of urine, then is He worthy of worship? Obviously, He's not... so piss on him.

    Which piece of art carries the more profound message? The one that is technically perfect and deservedly awe-inspiring? Or the one that tries to teach you lessons about yourself?
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Ahhh... But you're confusing craftsmanship with art.
    I didn't define the word. You're simply trying to rewrite the definition, to defend dreck, crap, trash.
    What an ignoble effort that is on your part.

    Which piece of art carries the more profound message?
    Piss in a jar is a "profound message" to you? Mocking Catholics is "profound" to you?
    I suppose you think homosexuality is just peachy. Hating and bitterness are "profound" and wonderful, aren't they.
    Incidentally, all the priests who molested little boys were, by definition, homosexuals. Real men don't have any sexual interest whatsoever in boys.
    Only homosexuals do. And Democrats simply LOVE homosexuals, and transgenders and all the other abnormal sickos.
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    Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. - Luke 22:36
    Swords are not used for plowing.

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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Ahhh... But you're confusing craftsmanship with art. Art isn't about skill.... it's about the message.

    Now take a modern work like Andres Serrano's Piss Christ.... it has a pretty low level of craftsmanship, but I think the message is even more profound. It took me a while and a lot of thinking to get it, but what I eventually realized is that God is the Creator of the Universe, in all of it's diversity... but if your version of God is so limited and so petty to be offended by a crucifex being put into a jar of urine, then is He worthy of worship? Obviously, He's not... so piss on him.
    And since you love homosexual "messages" so much, I'll bet you're simply giddy over Richard Mapplethorpe's Rectal Bullwhip.
    Is that another homosexual paean to God?

    Art - Rectal Bullwhip by Richard Mapplethorpe.jpg

    There is a brilliant lecture by an art professor on what is art and what is not:

    YouTube

    Then again, you should re-read the definition of artifice. You obviously missed it.

    Definition of "artifice":


    ar·ti·fice - ˈärdəfəs - noun - clever or cunning devices or expedients, especially as used to trick or deceive others. outright fakery
    synonyms - trickery, deceit, deception, duplicity, guile, chicanery
    Last edited by MrWonderful; 03-12-19 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Added artifice definition, ignored by some Leftists
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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonderful View Post
    I didn't define the word. You're simply trying to rewrite the definition, to defend dreck, crap, trash.
    What an ignoble effort that is on your part.



    Piss in a jar is a "profound message" to you? Mocking Catholics is "profound" to you?
    I suppose you think homosexuality is just peachy. Hating and bitterness are "profound" and wonderful, aren't they.
    Incidentally, all the priests who molested little boys were, by definition, homosexuals. Real men don't have any sexual interest whatsoever in boys.
    Only homosexuals do. And Democrats simply LOVE homosexuals, and transgenders and all the other abnormal sickos.
    I'm not trying to re-write anything... I do admit to mis-speaking though, I used the word "art" when I should have used the word "imagination"... the art itself is the combination of skill (or craftsmanship) and imagination, which is entirely consistent with the definition you posted.

    Why should urine in a jar offend me? The God I worship created the Universe in all of it's diversity. If I were to be offended by a crucifex in a jar of urine, that would say something about me, would it not? Wouldn't I be taking God and making Him into my image and making Him offended by the things that offend me?

    Shouldn't it be the other way around? Wasn't I the one who was made in God's image? What's more, as a Christian, shouldn't I be more mindful of the New Testament and not be so judgmental of others? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all of that.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Art and Artifice, Defined With Examples Provided

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonderful View Post
    "Art is created with skill."

    Please give the audience YOUR take on the "skill" necessary to throw paint onto a canvas, or piss into a glass jar and drop a crucifix inside it, viz., "Piss Christ," subsidized by taxpayers.

    No. 17A by Jackson Pollock, sold for $200,000,000
    Something YOU call "a masterpiece" because you have been told it is so by your betters....of the Left, bien sur.


    No 17A by Jason Pollock 0 million.jpg
    It's always amusing to see how much art frightens those who don't understand it.

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