Why is sci-fi cursed with greedy, stupid, short-sighted producers?

NeverTrumpGOP said:

I did $6/15 episodes. That's roughly $0.40-0.50 per hour of Star Trek. You can wait until all episodes are out and pay for the month and watch it in a month. Then cancel. You are complaining about not owning it when you have a Netflix subscription which is odd, and Amazon just increased their prime membership too. The amazon increase could have paid for Discovery alone.

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1.) Yes, if you're willing to wait 8 months after every thing's aired, sure. But I'll be honest, if that's the arrangement I'm going to get, I'd sooner pirate. I don't like pirating sci-fi, because it's been extremely harmful to sci-fi shows in the past (particularly Stargate Universe and Caprica).

2.) Yes, Netflix and Amazon increase their prices (although you get a hell of a lot more than just video for Amazon Prime), but they have huge catalogs and they are largely stable. Particularly when combined. But that's the trade here, which is obvious to most people. If you're willing to pay 8-12 bucks a month for a streaming service where you don't have a license to the IP, the trade-off is that it's a large catalog. So you get the large catalog that's pretty stable, but still rotates slightly to keep the content fresh. That's a fair trade. Another fair trade is that you buy a digital copy of some IP for a fixed price in the $1-4 an episode range; it's less nice because it costs more, but you own it.

They're demanding I accept the worst of everything --paying more per episode, not owning it, no serious catalog, and as a final "**** you"-on-top there's advertisements. If I accepted this deal, I'd have be a complete chump --or someone who doesn't mind the thought of paying $100-200/month for 10-20 different streaming services from NBC, CBS, ShowTime, HBO, etc, and Amazon, Netflix, etc. If you accept a deal like this, every goddamn network is going to go in this direction (they're already trying to). I'm not saying competition amongst different streaming companies is unacceptable. I support three, currently. I'm saying the customer is losing hugely if every cable network decides to run their own niche $10/month streaming service with a handful of shows you want to watch and that's it. If you choke this down with Star Trek Discovery, you're well on your way to choking it down for every other network you like watching. There's a lot to say about this, but needless to say, everyone loses out the further we go from a small set of competing Netflix-Hulu-Amazon Prime models and the closer we go back to the old corporate cable model.

I've seen a lot of chatter online twitter and reddit about it because it has cool fan theories/Easter eggs and I am a part of that culture, maybe you are following the wrong trends, but I did see it trending on twitter one night recently, due to a big plot twist. I've told more people to watch Star Trek Discovery and Better Call Saul more than any other show ever.

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Told by whom? Sources that affect advertising? I'm sure tons of people watch it, that doesn't translate automatically into ad or subscriber revenue.

FieldTheorist said:

1.) Yes, if you're willing to wait 8 months after every thing's aired, sure. But I'll be honest, if that's the arrangement I'm going to get, I'd sooner pirate. I don't like pirating sci-fi, because it's been extremely harmful to sci-fi shows in the past (particularly Stargate Universe and Caprica).

2.) Yes, Netflix and Amazon increase their prices (although you get a hell of a lot more than just video for Amazon Prime), but they have huge catalogs and they are largely stable. Particularly when combined. But that's the trade here, which is obvious to most people. If you're willing to pay 8-12 bucks a month for a streaming service where you don't have a license to the IP, the trade-off is that it's a large catalog. So you get the large catalog that's pretty stable, but still rotates slightly to keep the content fresh. That's a fair trade. Another fair trade is that you buy a digital copy of some IP for a fixed price in the $1-4 an episode range; it's less nice because it costs more, but you own it.

They're demanding I accept the worst of everything --paying more per episode, not owning it, no serious catalog, and as a final "**** you"-on-top there's advertisements. If I accepted this deal, I'd have be a complete chump --or someone who doesn't mind the thought of paying $100-200/month for 10-20 different streaming services from NBC, CBS, ShowTime, HBO, etc, and Amazon, Netflix, etc. If you accept a deal like this, every goddamn network is going to go in this direction (they're already trying to). I'm not saying competition amongst different streaming companies is unacceptable. I support three, currently. I'm saying the customer is losing hugely if every cable network decides to run their own $10/month streaming service. If you choke this down with Star Trek Discovery, you're basically choking it down for every other TV station you like watching. There's a lot to say about this, but needless to say, everyone loses out the further we go from a small set of competing Netflix-Hulu-Amazon Prime models and the closer we go back to the old corporate cable model.




Told by whom? Sources that affect advertising? I'm sure tons of people watch it, that doesn't translate automatically into ad or subscriber revenue.

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CBS seems to be happy enough with the numbers and the show. It's already been renewed for season 2. It could have been much worse and I was expecting it to be. I never expected it to actually get off the ground, but it's nearing my favorite ST series of all time. It's wonderful and if you really wanted to support Star Trek you would by paying for it. I like the Good Fight (that other show they have) too, so that's just an extra bonus. I heard also that CBS is getting The Twilight Zone going again, so more bang for your buck.

Absentglare said:

Yeah i'm honestly just waiting for it to be distributed for a reasonable price. I think CBS is trying to turn streaming into cable and i don't want to encourage that.

We know from piracy how cheap the distribution itself can be: pirates give it away for free. Granted, they have to make some money, but there's already several major players like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and HBO Now; and I bet at least three of them would pay a fortune for the new Star Trek.

Stupid move by CBS, and i'm not going to comply. I'll just wait and buy it on DVD or Amazon.

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That is exactly what I'm refusing to partake in.

NeverTrumpGOP said:

CBS seems to be happy enough with the numbers and the show. It's already been renewed for season 2. It could have been much worse and I was expecting it to be. I never expected it to actually get off the ground, but it's nearing my favorite ST series of all time. It's wonderful and if you really wanted to support Star Trek you would by paying for it. I like the Good Fight (that other show they have) too, so that's just an extra bonus. I heard also that CBS is getting The Twilight Zone going again, so more bang for your buck.

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If you feel this is worth your money, that's your decision. But if 5-10 years from now there's 50 different subscription services who all have exclusive content that you have to pay 6-12 bucks a month to rent (possibly with adverts), and you're effectively paying 5-10 bucks an episode... Just know that's what you're really signing yourself up for right now.

FieldTheorist said:

If you feel this is worth your money, that's your decision. But if 5-10 years from now there's 50 different subscription services who all have exclusive content that you have to pay 6-12 bucks a month to rent (possibly with adverts), and you're effectively paying 5-10 bucks an episode... Just know that's what you're really signing yourself up for right now.

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I am well aware of the industry and that I can cancel at any time.

Goshin said:

I've been watching it, and frankly it isn't worth it.


Hard core Trekkies will get bent out of shape about the gazillion ways Discovery trashes Trek-canon. I don't mean it bends established canon/continuity, I mean it almost might as well be a different show set in a different universe. Yet they draw heavily on Trek history/continuity when it suits them anyway.

Those less concerned with such things but looking for good sci-fi might like it, I suppose, but some of the central themes are rather esoteric and dubious even by sci-fi standards. The acting is fairly good and there are some interesting alien concepts but the storyline lacks focus and coherence.

The two most recent Season 2 episodes, imho, jumped the shark.

In short, I'd rather watch more seasons of Dark Matter and I've give ten Discoveries for one Firefly.

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Firefly may be the best sci fi series ever. I love Dark Matter too. What do you think of The Expanse?

trblmkr said:

Firefly may be the best sci fi series ever. I love Dark Matter too. What do you think of The Expanse?

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I read most of the books before the series was made, which always makes it tough (books always have more than can be put on screen). I was hoping it would be well-made and not disappoint.

Well I was pleasantly surprised. With a few variations it stays true to the books, mostly sticks to scientifically plausible tech and space action.

I had to get used to the main characters as they varied in look and sound and manner from my imagination reading about them, but once that was done I was well pleased. The woman playing Avrasarala (the UN bigshot) is AWESOME and nailed her presentation of that character so well she nearly steals the show. Amos is very good at being Amos, scary good.

The actor playing Holden at first came across to me as weaker and more uncertain than the book character, but firmed up with time.

Love the visuals and effects, the way they kept the realistic flip-and-burn mechanics of spaceflight and did zero-gee scenes. Beautiful.


Can't wait for more.



And just to clarify I'd give away ten SEASONS of ST Discovery for a single new EPISODE of Firefly...

Expanse has effects that rivals movies with outrageous budgets. Agree about Holden. The rest of the cast is great and the writers seem to take care to develop each character giving us reason to care about them. And while I know it is so hard to do enjoyable space effects without sound, because there isn't any, they do everything but that. It is a class show and I hope it can go more than just a couple of seasons. It's got to be expensive.
And I only watch them recorded. I miss too many details to watch them in real time. Sometimes one or two words in a conversation have great meaning later.

I have waited for a reason to comment on your avatar. Excellent choice.

This does raise an interesting question about the genre in general: Who is actually pushing the boundaries of science fiction anymore? The average young person thinks of a superhero flick, or The Walking Dead when you say "Sci-Fi".... Where are the books, movies, and television (internet) shows that are making people think??