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Mindhunter

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Respected On All Sides
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Note: I'm only two episodes in so anything spoiler-ish written below won't be too bad.

A new show will frequently come out with the viewer's endorsement that it's officially the new Wire, usually missing the point of what that made that show so damn good. First of all, I don't think there can ever really be another The Wire -- it was a one-off, a one of a kind, and even David Simon can't seem to repeat the magic that made that series so brilliant. For myself, I apply several standards that The Wire achieved:

a)A grim dissection of a brutally serious and sociologically relevant subject matter.
b)A social message that thrives outside the radius of its own plot.
c)A character driven narrative made possible by excellent casting and a team of writers who genuinely identify with and like their characters.
c)Frequent but non-aggressive use of metaphors.
d)Humor placed often and effortlessly in a subject matter that is anything but funny.
e)The complete abandonment of Hollywood tropes that make any effort at prediction a futile endeavor.

While the style of Mindhunter is certainly not identical to the The Wire, it absolutely achieves the qualities listed above, making for a perfectly blend of seriousness and enjoyment.

Mindhunter takes place in the 1970's and details the rise of the use of modern criminal psychology in the FBI. It follows a young and curious yet frustratingly inexperienced FBI agent, Holden Ford, who's fascinated with psychological theories that only seem to be discussed in the ivory towers of academia yet are completely dismissed as nonsense in law enforcement. He's interested in the concept that murderers are made and not simply born, and believes that motives can exist outside the rigid boundaries of "need or greed." This is encountered with skepticism by his peers, who think that such an approach seeks to "excuse" criminals and don't understand how utilizing modern psychology can be instrumental in solving murders.

At one point I said to my wife, "This show is aggressively smart." I retracted this comment, however, because in truth there's nothing really all that aggressive about the show at all. While it is indeed fantastically intelligent, it isn't rendered unwatchable if you're not particularly interested in metaphor or psychology. Simply put, it's as smart as you want it to be.

Audience warning: boobies, swearing, and the infrequent depiction of seriously unpleasant murder scene photographs.

As I said, I'm only two episodes in, but I'm already completely hooked.
 
Note: I'm only two episodes in so anything spoiler-ish written below won't be too bad.

A new show will frequently come out with the viewer's endorsement that it's officially the new Wire, usually missing the point of what that made that show so damn good. First of all, I don't think there can ever really be another The Wire -- it was a one-off, a one of a kind, and even David Simon can't seem to repeat the magic that made that series so brilliant. For myself, I apply several standards that The Wire achieved:

a)A grim dissection of a brutally serious and sociologically relevant subject matter.
b)A social message that thrives outside the radius of its own plot.
c)A character driven narrative made possible by excellent casting and a team of writers who genuinely identify with and like their characters.
c)Frequent but non-aggressive use of metaphors.
d)Humor placed often and effortlessly in a subject matter that is anything but funny.
e)The complete abandonment of Hollywood tropes that make any effort at prediction a futile endeavor.

While the style of Mindhunter is certainly not identical to the The Wire, it absolutely achieves the qualities listed above, making for a perfectly blend of seriousness and enjoyment.

Mindhunter takes place in the 1970's and details the rise of the use of modern criminal psychology in the FBI. It follows a young and curious yet frustratingly inexperienced FBI agent, Holden Ford, who's fascinated with psychological theories that only seem to be discussed in the ivory towers of academia yet are completely dismissed as nonsense in law enforcement. He's interested in the concept that murderers are made and not simply born, and believes that motives can exist outside the rigid boundaries of "need or greed." This is encountered with skepticism by his peers, who think that such an approach seeks to "excuse" criminals and don't understand how utilizing modern psychology can be instrumental in solving murders.

At one point I said to my wife, "This show is aggressively smart." I retracted this comment, however, because in truth there's nothing really all that aggressive about the show at all. While it is indeed fantastically intelligent, it isn't rendered unwatchable if you're not particularly interested in metaphor or psychology. Simply put, it's as smart as you want it to be.

Audience warning: boobies, swearing, and the infrequent depiction of seriously unpleasant murder scene photographs.

As I said, I'm only two episodes in, but I'm already completely hooked.

I burned through that **** in two days. I loved it. I am currently taking a Psychology and the Law class, and I love how the two completely parallel.
 
I burned through that **** in two days. I loved it. I am currently taking a Psychology and the Law class, and I love how the two completely parallel.

I'm jealous. You probably got a lot more out of the show than I will.
 
Note: I'm only two episodes in so anything spoiler-ish written below won't be too bad.

A new show will frequently come out with the viewer's endorsement that it's officially the new Wire, usually missing the point of what that made that show so damn good. First of all, I don't think there can ever really be another The Wire -- it was a one-off, a one of a kind, and even David Simon can't seem to repeat the magic that made that series so brilliant. For myself, I apply several standards that The Wire achieved:

a)A grim dissection of a brutally serious and sociologically relevant subject matter.
b)A social message that thrives outside the radius of its own plot.
c)A character driven narrative made possible by excellent casting and a team of writers who genuinely identify with and like their characters.
c)Frequent but non-aggressive use of metaphors.
d)Humor placed often and effortlessly in a subject matter that is anything but funny.
e)The complete abandonment of Hollywood tropes that make any effort at prediction a futile endeavor.

While the style of Mindhunter is certainly not identical to the The Wire, it absolutely achieves the qualities listed above, making for a perfectly blend of seriousness and enjoyment.

Mindhunter takes place in the 1970's and details the rise of the use of modern criminal psychology in the FBI. It follows a young and curious yet frustratingly inexperienced FBI agent, Holden Ford, who's fascinated with psychological theories that only seem to be discussed in the ivory towers of academia yet are completely dismissed as nonsense in law enforcement. He's interested in the concept that murderers are made and not simply born, and believes that motives can exist outside the rigid boundaries of "need or greed." This is encountered with skepticism by his peers, who think that such an approach seeks to "excuse" criminals and don't understand how utilizing modern psychology can be instrumental in solving murders.

At one point I said to my wife, "This show is aggressively smart." I retracted this comment, however, because in truth there's nothing really all that aggressive about the show at all. While it is indeed fantastically intelligent, it isn't rendered unwatchable if you're not particularly interested in metaphor or psychology. Simply put, it's as smart as you want it to be.

Audience warning: boobies, swearing, and the infrequent depiction of seriously unpleasant murder scene photographs.

As I said, I'm only two episodes in, but I'm already completely hooked.

I have to say that I superficially rejected it for the precious 3 or 4 TV hours I get every week or so based on it's stupid graphic on Netflix.

That said, in all caps, THE WIRE IS THE WORLD'S GREATEST TV SHOW IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. I will check it out, next Thursday, mebbe, if I have time.

I quite inadvertantly clicked on Bloodline a few days ago, tho', and I have to admit, it's the balls.
 
I have to say that I superficially rejected it for the precious 3 or 4 TV hours I get every week or so based on it's stupid graphic on Netflix.

That said, in all caps, THE WIRE IS THE WORLD'S GREATEST TV SHOW IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. I will check it out, next Thursday, mebbe, if I have time.

I quite inadvertantly clicked on Bloodline a few days ago, tho', and I have to admit, it's the balls.

I read the description of Bloodline. It sounds like a soap opera.
 
I read the description of Bloodline. It sounds like a soap opera.

I thought that, too, for the longest time.

It is dark, unsettled, revengeful. caustic and bitter in the way that only old families can be. And that makes for a delicious sammich.

Nevertheless, I'm going to try Mindhunter when I get home this morning.
 
I'm jealous. You probably got a lot more out of the show than I will.

Don't be jealous. My husband is pissed. :lol: Every time something happened, or they talked about certain things, I would be like, "That was chapter 5!" or "I held a discussion on this last week!"

I love Holden, though. I hated him at first. Thought he was like this dry piece of toast. As the show progressed, he was still this dry piece of toast, but he had some amazing ****ing orange marmalade on the side. :D
 
Don't be jealous. My husband is pissed. :lol: Every time something happened, or they talked about certain things, I would be like, "That was chapter 5!" or "I held a discussion on this last week!"

I love Holden, though. I hated him at first. Thought he was like this dry piece of toast. As the show progressed, he was still this dry piece of toast, but he had some amazing ****ing orange marmalade on the side. :D

Without giving anything away (remember, only two episodes in), is he named after the Holden from Catcher in the Rye?
 
Without giving anything away (remember, only two episodes in), is he named after the Holden from Catcher in the Rye?

It does not say. Never goes into it.

And I am extremely careful about spoiling things. I spoiled something once for a friend (when Dexter's wife died) and I felt so terrible that I go out of the way now to not spoil anything.
 
Make sure the kids are not at home. :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Not the show to pick when the family gathers around on Christmas day.
 
It does not say. Never goes into it.

And I am extremely careful about spoiling things. I spoiled something once for a friend (when Dexter's wife died) and I felt so terrible that I go out of the way now to not spoil anything.

I unfriended someone on Facebook for spoiling Game of Thrones. She literally ruined the season finale.
 
I unfriended someone on Facebook for spoiling Game of Thrones. She literally ruined the season finale.

I feel you, man. I didn't even mean to spoil it for my friend when Dexter's wife died. I was just trying to make a joke, and he was like DUDE I WATCH THIS ON NETFLIX AFTER THE SEASON ENDS.

I felt awful. :(
 
I feel you, man. I didn't even mean to spoil it for my friend when Dexter's wife died. I was just trying to make a joke, and he was like DUDE I WATCH THIS ON NETFLIX AFTER THE SEASON ENDS.

I felt awful. :(

After the season ends? While it was wrong of you to spoil it for him, it's completely unrealistic to expect to make it all the way to Netflix release time for the most popular show in the world. I believed I could make it to the end of the season and binge it, but social media made it impossible to make it through a day without it being immediately spoiled. Your friend is going to have to watch it like everyone else or unplug from the internet altogether.
 
After the season ends? While it was wrong of you to spoil it for him, it's completely unrealistic to expect to make it all the way to Netflix release time for the most popular show in the world. I believed I could make it to the end of the season and binge it, but social media made it impossible to make it through a day without it being immediately spoiled. Your friend is going to have to watch it like everyone else or unplug from the internet altogether.

I don't remember if it was the season finale when his wife died. I just remember it pissed my friend off and I made sure not to do it again. But yeah, you are right. It's why, if I can't watch a season finale on the night it airs, I go on Facebook and Twitter blackout until I watch. Have had too many finales ruined that way.
 
Note: I'm only two episodes in so anything spoiler-ish written below won't be too bad.

A new show will frequently come out with the viewer's endorsement that it's officially the new Wire, usually missing the point of what that made that show so damn good. First of all, I don't think there can ever really be another The Wire -- it was a one-off, a one of a kind, and even David Simon can't seem to repeat the magic that made that series so brilliant. For myself, I apply several standards that The Wire achieved:

a)A grim dissection of a brutally serious and sociologically relevant subject matter.
b)A social message that thrives outside the radius of its own plot.
c)A character driven narrative made possible by excellent casting and a team of writers who genuinely identify with and like their characters.
c)Frequent but non-aggressive use of metaphors.
d)Humor placed often and effortlessly in a subject matter that is anything but funny.
e)The complete abandonment of Hollywood tropes that make any effort at prediction a futile endeavor.

While the style of Mindhunter is certainly not identical to the The Wire, it absolutely achieves the qualities listed above, making for a perfectly blend of seriousness and enjoyment.

Mindhunter takes place in the 1970's and details the rise of the use of modern criminal psychology in the FBI. It follows a young and curious yet frustratingly inexperienced FBI agent, Holden Ford, who's fascinated with psychological theories that only seem to be discussed in the ivory towers of academia yet are completely dismissed as nonsense in law enforcement. He's interested in the concept that murderers are made and not simply born, and believes that motives can exist outside the rigid boundaries of "need or greed." This is encountered with skepticism by his peers, who think that such an approach seeks to "excuse" criminals and don't understand how utilizing modern psychology can be instrumental in solving murders.

At one point I said to my wife, "This show is aggressively smart." I retracted this comment, however, because in truth there's nothing really all that aggressive about the show at all. While it is indeed fantastically intelligent, it isn't rendered unwatchable if you're not particularly interested in metaphor or psychology. Simply put, it's as smart as you want it to be.

Audience warning: boobies, swearing, and the infrequent depiction of seriously unpleasant murder scene photographs.

As I said, I'm only two episodes in, but I'm already completely hooked.

Cool, I'll check it out as soon as I'm finished with the Vietnam War documentary. I tried watching American Gods but its slow and I cant get into it.
 
I burned through that **** in two days. I loved it. I am currently taking a Psychology and the Law class, and I love how the two completely parallel.

We finally finished the show, and I'm pretty sure my wife solved the riddle of Holden's strange character arc:

Holden slowly alienated himself from his partner, his girlfriend and general principles of decency within the FBI because he came to view the serial killers he was interviewing as his teachers. With that dynamic in place, he reached a point where he was actively seeking their approval.
 
I finished the series too. I thought it was just okay. Nowhere near the complexities or deep characters of the Wire. The main character is a stiff, I just couldnt get any sympathy for him since he had a personality of a cardboard box. His personal life with his GF went nowhere as well and was more of a time sink than a positive addition to the story.

All in all it was a slow burn ... a very, very slow burn and I thought the final episodes were anti-climactic, the build up seemed to go the wrong way.

In the end not bad, though not good either- decent time waster. And somewhat overrated.
 
I finished the series too. I thought it was just okay. Nowhere near the complexities or deep characters of the Wire. The main character is a stiff, I just couldnt get any sympathy for him since he had a personality of a cardboard box. His personal life with his GF went nowhere as well and was more of a time sink than a positive addition to the story.

All in all it was a slow burn ... a very, very slow burn and I thought the final episodes were anti-climactic, the build up seemed to go the wrong way.

In the end not bad, though not good either- decent time waster. And somewhat overrated.

Your opinion is wrong.
 
Your opinion is wrong.

I just finished “Mind Hunter” and it was slow to evolve, but became more watchable thru episodes 2 and on. I don’t care for the full screen location graphics and the writers seem confident that they will get a multi season run as the end of season 1 leaves many subplots unfinished. The Kansas back story is very disturbing and slow developing. Season 2 debuts in 2019 WTF?

I agree that the ‘Holden’ character seems wooden, but I look for his partner to have a meltdown due to domestic issues and Holden and the scientist to get entangled..........
 
I just finished “Mind Hunter” and it was slow to evolve, but became more watchable thru episodes 2 and on. I don’t care for the full screen location graphics and the writers seem confident that they will get a multi season run as the end of season 1 leaves many subplots unfinished. The Kansas back story is very disturbing and slow developing. Season 2 debuts in 2019 WTF?

I agree that the ‘Holden’ character seems wooden, but I look for his partner to have a meltdown due to domestic issues and Holden and the scientist to get entangled..........

Holden's character had a very interesting character arc with a gigantic twist at the end. His personality was largely inscrutable, though his character as a whole was dominated by motives that were high destructive to him in the end.

I never had a problem with his personality, from a narrative or acting point of view.
 
I just finished “Mind Hunter” and it was slow to evolve, but became more watchable thru episodes 2 and on. I don’t care for the full screen location graphics and the writers seem confident that they will get a multi season run as the end of season 1 leaves many subplots unfinished. The Kansas back story is very disturbing and slow developing. Season 2 debuts in 2019 WTF?
Yup. If they had ended the season with them catching that budding serial killer in KS it would have been an effective coda. Instead they leave us hanging and made all the scenes with that suspect somewhat pointless when they could have done it as flashbacks the following season.

I agree that the ‘Holden’ character seems wooden, but I look for his partner to have a meltdown due to domestic issues and Holden and the scientist to get entangled..........

LOL thats gonna end up like a soap opera.

Holden's character had a very interesting character arc with a gigantic twist at the end.
I saw that "twist" coming a mile away. His growing obsessions with his subjects was plain to see by episode 2. It was thoroughly predictable.

I never had a problem with his personality, from a narrative or acting point of view.

Birds of a feather, eh? ;)
 
We finally finished the show, and I'm pretty sure my wife solved the riddle of Holden's strange character arc:

Holden slowly alienated himself from his partner, his girlfriend and general principles of decency within the FBI because he came to view the serial killers he was interviewing as his teachers. With that dynamic in place, he reached a point where he was actively seeking their approval.

Hmm... could be. I apologize - for some reason, I never got the notification for this post.

I am on to my next fix now. Just finished Stranger Things, and knee deep in a podcast called S-Town.
 
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