• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Walking Dead Season Premier 2016

Alexandria's way too good of a place to just give up to the Saviors. Not to mention Alexandria has a 50+ population. I don't know how that many of them could survive on the open road like that.

I meant Rick's core group.

I know Daryl is a captive now, but it seems like a different part of the country would be better at this point.
 
I meant Rick's core group.

I know Daryl is a captive now, but it seems like a different part of the country would be better at this point.

But the Alexandrians are also part of Rick's group, too. They can't (and won't) just abandon them all.
 
I know it is not in the script, but I wonder why they don't get everybody that is left and get as far away from that area as possible.
The country is a pretty big place.
Last episode of last season made that unlikely IMO. It was all about them trying to out maneuver the Saviors, and they lost every single time.
They were a step ahead of Rick's group the entire time, it wasn't even close.

How are they gonna get out? On foot? Maybe, but the ass beating they took the last 2 episodes, its plausible they are defeated for a while.
 
Last episode of last season made that unlikely IMO. It was all about them trying to out maneuver the Saviors, and they lost every single time.
They were a step ahead of Rick's group the entire time, it wasn't even close.

How are they gonna get out? On foot? Maybe, but the ass beating they took the last 2 episodes, its plausible they are defeated for a while.

That was because Neegan's group were prepared for them at the time.

I doubt the block every exit from the area on a daily basis.
 
It has been a few episodes.

Do we still like this series?
 
It has been a few episodes.

Do we still like this series?

I'm going to be honest, i'm kinda losing interest. Rick and Daryl are pissing me off.

It's also kinda weird with Jesus and Carl- seems like they're deviating from the comics.
 
It has been a few episodes.

Do we still like this series?

I have to say, for the first time since I've watched it, I'm not really looking forward to the next episode. There has been almost nothing good happening yet in this season. Negan takes their stuff and eviscerates them, walking around doing anything he wants, and they can't do a thing about it.

The ratings are down to season 3 levels, and have dropped for four straight episodes for the first time. Unless something big happens (I don't read the comics) things aren't looking good. It's like they've painted themselves into a corner making the Saviors so big, there's no hope of taking them on.

I think they really screwed up. All the episodes are in the can already, so there is nothing they can do. They must be crapping in their pants watching the ratings drop, and they are stuck with what they've got.
 
It seems like the show will continue to suck until they'll decide it's time for the group to start fighting back.
 
It has been a few episodes.

Do we still like this series?
I THINK that they are trying to make the viewing audience feel as helpless and desperate as Rick and the other survivors. They want us to be conflicted and angry like Carl and Michonne and ready to fight, but as stuck and lost as Rick. They want us to be torn. Putting yourself in that scenario, you would sit back and run through scenarios over and over and over and over til you figure out what YOU would have done differently. Then figure out for yourself how it wouldnt work.

And they want you to overlook all the massive plotholes.

I think this season is supposed to be dark, until it comes time to fight back. Remember...what OUR group is learning is what the other communities already learned. The difference is Ricks group has been out in the deep **** for years whereas the groups that first encountered the saviors were soft. They were easily controlled. Rick and company...not so much.

BTW...2 episodes ago...Carl should have sent one of the guys out of the house and then shot Negan in the knee. Sent them all away for a week to work things out with Negan, then killed Negan before they came back. Set up roadside traps when they were leaving their compound and tore them up in a week when they came back to get Negan. See? We all are working on what WE would have done differently. Its pretty compelling.
 
Last edited:
It seems like the show will continue to suck until they'll decide it's time for the group to start fighting back.
It only sucks because you are stuck with them. Thats what the writing is supposed to do.
 
It only sucks because you are stuck with them. Thats what the writing is supposed to do.

It sucks because people don't want to see more than one or two episodes of them being miserable and hopeless.
 
Well, we're back to Carl as a synonym for Stupid, again. Pity, I like the boy.


Actually though there's tons and tons of Stupid to go around... characters that by now should KNOW better doing stupid newbie crap.



Rick, trying to stare down Negan AFTER the big opening demonstration and AFTER letting him and his men in passively... really really dumb.

Rick actually giving in as opposed to seeming to... dumb. Un-Rickly also.

Carl pitching a bitch fit with a little pistola in the face of Negan's overwhelming numbers AFTER seeing what happens to people who piss Negan off... really stupid, Carl.

Not caching some weapons and ammo off-site and off the books before Negan's arrival. REALLY dumb.

Michonne, SHOWING HERSELF in the @#%%@#$ window of the abandoned house while Negan's men were still in front of the gate, forcing Rick to give up the sniper rifle, when she darn well could have stayed hidden out of sight.


Not sure how much stupid I can tolerate before I give up.
 
It sucks because people don't want to see more than one or two episodes of them being miserable and hopeless.
Sure...but thats the experiential part of the viewing experience.
 
Well, we're back to Carl as a synonym for Stupid, again. Pity, I like the boy.


Actually though there's tons and tons of Stupid to go around... characters that by now should KNOW better doing stupid newbie crap.



Rick, trying to stare down Negan AFTER the big opening demonstration and AFTER letting him and his men in passively... really really dumb.

Rick actually giving in as opposed to seeming to... dumb. Un-Rickly also.

Carl pitching a bitch fit with a little pistola in the face of Negan's overwhelming numbers AFTER seeing what happens to people who piss Negan off... really stupid, Carl.

Not caching some weapons and ammo off-site and off the books before Negan's arrival. REALLY dumb.

Michonne, SHOWING HERSELF in the @#%%@#$ window of the abandoned house while Negan's men were still in front of the gate, forcing Rick to give up the sniper rifle, when she darn well could have stayed hidden out of sight.


Not sure how much stupid I can tolerate before I give up.
Thats where the whole plot hole things start to come in. Negan has apparently hundreds...but we dont see that. We see groups...20/30 at a time and we know they can knock off groups.

I agree Carl kinda boobed when he had the 2 at gunpoint, but at that point, when Negan walked in...thats when I would have turned the gun on him. Assured him he was safe because they needed him alive, shot him once just to get his attention, and then have him order everyone back to their camp without the stuff and to come back in say 2 weeks. They would have left. I would have kept Daryl and Dwight too. Then I would have introduced Negan to fear and pain...and broken him like an egg. Mostly just for fun but all the while pumping him for information and letting him know you still needed him alive. Then I'd a beat him to death with Lucille...slowly. just before the 2 weeks was up Ida sent the second guy back just so he could tell them everything that happened. The Negan collective would have splintered. Thats a plus. Then Id have just set up snipe outposts at their camp and shot any and everything that moved. Eventually there would have been a war but it wouldnt be with Negan...it would be with smaller groups fighting amongst themselves.

And I think this is what we are supposed to be doing and thinking about.
 
Thats where the whole plot hole things start to come in. Negan has apparently hundreds...but we dont see that. We see groups...20/30 at a time and we know they can knock off groups.

I agree Carl kinda boobed when he had the 2 at gunpoint, but at that point, when Negan walked in...thats when I would have turned the gun on him. Assured him he was safe because they needed him alive, shot him once just to get his attention, and then have him order everyone back to their camp without the stuff and to come back in say 2 weeks. They would have left. I would have kept Daryl and Dwight too. Then I would have introduced Negan to fear and pain...and broken him like an egg. Mostly just for fun but all the while pumping him for information and letting him know you still needed him alive. Then I'd a beat him to death with Lucille...slowly. just before the 2 weeks was up Ida sent the second guy back just so he could tell them everything that happened. The Negan collective would have splintered. Thats a plus. Then Id have just set up snipe outposts at their camp and shot any and everything that moved. Eventually there would have been a war but it wouldnt be with Negan...it would be with smaller groups fighting amongst themselves.

And I think this is what we are supposed to be doing and thinking about.



Watch how Negan's men move in a close cluster. They're not professional fighters. They're amateurs, frighteners. What a handful of good fighters could do to them in ambush with a few M4s coming in the gate like that makes a tactician drool.
 
Not caching some weapons and ammo off-site and off the books before Negan's arrival. REALLY dumb.

Negan came much earlier than he was supposed to for the tribute. So the Alexandrians wouldn't of had time to do that at all, since they were caught off-guard by his unexpected arrival.

Michonne, SHOWING HERSELF in the @#%%@#$ window of the abandoned house while Negan's men were still in front of the gate, forcing Rick to give up the sniper rifle, when she darn well could have stayed hidden out of sight.

Since the Saviors showed up earlier than they were supposed to, she had no idea that Negan and his gang were going to be there.

Not sure how much stupid I can tolerate before I give up.

I've been through worse on this show. Remember Andrea?
 
Watch how Negan's men move in a close cluster. They're not professional fighters. They're amateurs, frighteners. What a handful of good fighters could do to them in ambush with a few M4s coming in the gate like that makes a tactician drool.
yep...which is why they could be taken out. Carl let them go way too soon.
 
Watch how Negan's men move in a close cluster. They're not professional fighters. They're amateurs, frighteners. What a handful of good fighters could do to them in ambush with a few M4s coming in the gate like that makes a tactician drool.

I wouldn't say they are amateurs. The Woodburians were amateurs.

The Saviors are a bunch of ruffians. And they are also extremely organized. And there are hundreds of them.
 
I wouldn't say they are amateurs. The Woodburians were amateurs.

The Saviors are a bunch of ruffians. And they are also extremely organized. And there are hundreds of them.
How do we know that there are hundreds of them, and if they were that skilled, Ricks groups wouldnt have already been able to take out 2 complete groups in a matter of minutes.
 
By my count between the first encounter with the saviors and their 9, to all the others at the outpost, Ricks group has taken out 55 Saviors. Really, without breaking much of a sweat.
 
How do we know that there are hundreds of them,

Before Negan cornered Rick Grimes & crew, they had killled up to at least 58 Saviors. That's almost the entire population residing at Alexandria. Negan would have to have hundreds of men available in order for him to see that as a minor setback. Even Jesus stated that he's seen groups as big as 20 before. And IIRC, during the season 6 finale, over 50 Saviors were present. And there was also a giant group of Saviors that accompanied Negan to Alexandria.

I think that's enough to show that The Saviors are quite the large group.

and if they were that skilled, Ricks groups wouldnt have already been able to take out 2 complete groups in a matter of minutes.

Well to be fair, the Saviors at the satelite outpost were caught completely off-guard. And the group that accompanied Dwight was also caught off-guard by Abraham shooting them in the bushes.

And I don't think it's the fact that The Saviors are battle-hardened survivors is the reason why they are a threat. The reason why they are a threat is because they are such a massive group, especially if they can lose over 50 people and see that as a minor loss.

They also aren't stupid. They may have a bunch of crazies in their ranks, but they are very well organized. And they also fall in line behind Negan without question.
 
Last edited:
Before Negan cornered Rick Grimes & crew, they had killled up to at least 58 Saviors. That's almost the entire population residing at Alexandria. Negan would have to have hundreds of men available in order for him to see that as a minor setback. Even Jesus stated that he's seen groups as big as 20 before. And IIRC, during the season 6 finale, over 50 Saviors were present. And there was also a giant group of Saviors that accompanied Negan to Alexandria.

I think that's enough to show that The Saviors are quite the large group.



Well to be fair, the Saviors at the satelite outpost were caught completely off-guard. And the group that accompanied Dwight was also caught off-guard by Abraham shooting them in the bushes.

And I don't think it's the fact that The Saviors are battle-hardened survivors is the reason why they are a threat. The reason why they are a thread is because they are such a massive group.

They also aren't stupid. They may have a bunch of crazies in their ranks, but they are very well organized.
They are organized by fear and control. Remove the head...the body tears itself apart. Even sheer numbers dont help and I doubt they are that well connected.

Anyway...its all speculation and I think thats what we are meant to be doing right now. At some point they will start to connect with the other colonies (thats another oddity/plothole. Why havent the colonies done a better job of connecting?).
 
I wouldn't say they are amateurs. The Woodburians were amateurs.

The Saviors are a bunch of ruffians. And they are also extremely organized. And there are hundreds of them.



Ruffians, yes. Not soldiers, or even experienced amateurs. They move in tight clusters with no apparent formation, no apparent plan or thought of how they'd react to sudden ambush. They act as if their superior numbers are all they need to cow all opposition.


When they DO run into serious opposition, as in the outpost, they don't do so well. Frighteners and thugs. Give me ten real soldiers and watch them die in piles like snowdrifts. Or even ten deer hunters with semiauto rifles who will follow orders and have a little sense and grit, and a few weeks to train them, and we'd slaughter them twenty for one.

They're as stupid as anyone in Alexandria, just meaner and more numerous.


Negan is the linchpin. He's the big frightener than scares the ruffians into obedience. Looks like half of them secretly hate him. Kill him and his second-tier leaders would likely tear the "Saviors" apart fighting to be top dog.


They're not as formidable as they seem.
 
They are organized by fear and control. Remove the head...the body tears itself apart. Even sheer numbers dont help and I doubt they are that well connected.

Removing Negan doesn't solve the problem. If you kill him, you would still have to worry about the rest of the Savior's hierarchy filling up that vaccum. Simon (Negan's right hand man) could easily take Negan's place as leader, and then Rick would still end up having an All-Out War on his hands. The same could probably be said for the rest of Negan's top lieutenants.

And considering that the Saviors have so many outposts that they constantly maintain, and so many men spread out, it would only make sense that they are well organized to some degree, as I doubt they could maintain both those outposts and their control over the communities if they didn't.

Anyway...its all speculation and I think thats what we are meant to be doing right now. At some point they will start to connect with the other colonies (thats another oddity/plothole. Why havent the colonies done a better job of connecting?).

Well, I'm thinking the reason why these communities aren't communicating as much as they should is because only two (Alexandria and the Hilltop) have really ever formally met. The Kingdom and Oceanside had no idea that those other communities even existed.

But I'm pretty sure that they'll all unite soon enough.
 
Back
Top Bottom